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Linux vs. windows

  • Thread starter terrak
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In response to one of EST respones from a long post awhile ago I desided to create a new topic to acuratly describe what was being discussed.

In my own experience Linux has worked just fine. I have had a few problems but most are related to the fact that microsoft is a complete monoploy and engineers some of its software to completely destroy standards. For instance I have a HP printer hooked up to my sony VAIO which hosts the printer on the network. Windows XP uses some weird naming system for the print quene which is non-standard and can't be used by linux.
 
Heh, this topic.
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I don't think this is Windows' fault at all. Hewlett-Packard designed the printer, and they wrote the driver for it. Windows XP has a different print mechanism than what most Linux distributions use (CUPS I believe), but this is a given, since they are completely different operating systems.

If Hewlett-Packard wished to do so, they could release drivers for your printer so it would work properly on Linux. Otherwise, you have to rely on someone in the Linux community to make one for you (unless you have to be skilled enough to do so yourself).

It is a bit disingenous to say that your HP, which does not even claim to support Linux (check the operating system requirements on the box) printer does not work because of something Microsoft did.
 
This problem is not a driver plroblem because if I hook the printer up directly to my machine that runs linux or a a machine running somthning other than Xp  I have no problem.  What I believe the problem is is that Microsoft changed somthing.  Normaly I would set up the printer as a printer on samba server, which now no longer works.  However this is just one specific problem I have had with Windows.  I started this hoping a broader discusion to open up about other people experiences.
--edit--
Let me clarify my problem.  If I have a Windows XP machine host the printer on the network (which it would then show up as a printer hosted by a samba server in linux) Linux can see the printer but cannot use it.
 
Yup, Trashcan, this one again... BTW, did you ever read my last post on the last thread of this nature?  I dunno, I don't feel like arguing it (in general), I just know that my personal preference is stability, reliability, security, affordability (free), power, and love (
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), that is, Linux.  Hey, Trashcan, you aught to have a chat with my old man on the subject.  But I have to agree, Alex, you're pushing it there...  Anyway, we'll see how this developes (or doesn't).
 
sorry for not being clear on my problem. I'm just trying to spark a debate.

PS I personaly belive that Niether OS is(overall) "better"  but that they are just different and the choice of which OS a person uses should be based off of there needs and experiences.
 
I must say I can't blame Micro. at all though. Really they found a niche and filled it and filled it. Supply in demand is it and the public demands to have ease of use so they supply it. For the most part I don't think many advanced users use Micro. and this is not a concern to Micro. Linux is relatable to say....an ultrahighland Nep. You don't just jump into it, it's something that deffinitely has it's advantages but is not for everyone. You move to this after you understand the workings of the simple.
No, I don't think it is Micro's fault either. If you buy an HP (IBM/Micro. compatible) it is understandable that it is not Linux compatible. Just like there is seperate packagings for Micro. compat. and Apple/Mac compat. Linux is another system with it's own requirements and own limitations.
I will say that you will not find nearly as many "anythings" for Linux but that goes back to the supply in demand and the majority of people don't demand Linux anything so, the stores at least, don't carry these things.

Joe
 
Well, I don't have any problem stating my point of view. I use Linux occasionally, all though I've never been impressed. I'm using Fedora Core 2 right now.. I probably wouldn't have been using it this long if it hadn't trashed my boot partition so that Windows no longer works (fixing is on the mental TODO behind a million other things). I'm not complaining on the Linux forums - bugs happen to everybody. (Edit: forgot say not, hah)

Terrak: It sounds like a problem with you Samba setup. There are probably Linux drivers for your HP anyway (depending on how old it is and what model it is). Check out this page: http://hpinkjet.sourceforge.net/

FYI, Microsoft did not write or have any involvement in Samba (the clone of Microsoft's SMB/CIFS), so you can only hope that things interoperate correctly. SMB is not a standard, I believe it was reverse engineered by the Samba team (could be wrong though!).
 
I tried Redhat Linux Halloween Release ('94), Mandrake 5 or 6, and have been fiddling around with Gentoo and Knoppix (which is absolutely amazing for a system-on-a-disc).  I had some substantial problems with that first Redhat distribution trashing an already weedy hard drive, and have generally avoided the complete abandoment of Windows because there was always something i had to have (a particular game, more often than not) that wouldn't run on Linux.  I've used Irix, Solaris, every flavor of Windows up until 2K, and even a Mac (which ironically has caused me the most lost work due to instability of all the above, believe it or not),  and i have to say that in spite of my open source sympathies, W2K has been my OS of choice for 4 years now.  Of course, if it hadn't been given me free as a student (read: brainwash the next generation) promotion, i would have given Linux a more serious chance.

That's not to say that i don't appreciate the many advantages of Linux... i just haven't had time to get over the learning curve to the point where the customizability and geek appeal grab me.

With the advent of a decent MS Office alternative in the form of OpenOffice 1.1 and a simultaneous release of UT2004 on Linux and Windows, I feel it's finally time to ween my family's home network and myself off of windows.  And i'll do it... as soon as i get the time.
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)  I think we'd do well as a networked society (speaking of the world, and the USA in particular) to diversify our OSes. I firmly believe Linux and BSD are a superior option to Windows in the majority of the cases, but unfortunately we are all so ingrained in our Microsoft mentality and comfort zone that we resist change for the better. There will always be a place for Windows, and always a place where a *nix will be a better choice. The most urgently important thing is to do away with the computational monoculture we have created.

Just my very candid thoughts.
 
Trashcan You are completly right. Im just saying that It is complatable with linux and windows Used to be able to "host" the printer over the network to linux users who use samba. And samba is indeed reversed engenered. Howerver howcome when I changed to Win XP on the "host" computer The Linux computer can no longer use the printer. In Windows XP all of the options are exataly the same. Even the buttons are the same. The"feed back" messages are the same. Perhaps the windows are a litle rounder as a product of better rendering. But if nothing appears to change. How come Newer versions of windows cannot "host" the printer to linux machines. It is illogical. Enough said with the printer though; I appolagize beacuse It is a bad example. I gues my ownly real problem with windows is that somtimes the behavior of the operating system and how it comunicates with it's users is illogical. And I push for open source software because it takes advantages of stadards that many people can learn to understand while microsoft must remain secretive about the workings of it's products inorder to prevent pirating and wide scale copywrite violations.
 
  • #10
Terrak, Windows XP has problems networking via SMB with even Windows 98 computers.. I don't think it is an intentional breakage aimed at Linux. And I understand that that wasn't your main point, sorry for dragging it out.

That said, I most definitely respect your opinion, and I think the conclusion of your paragraph was very insightful.
 
  • #11
Divided by zero??
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--Sorry, just a quick comment--
 
  • #12
The new XP box in our group office sometimes won't let any of the other computers connect to it- W2K, Macs, etc. It doesn't seem to have any trouble going the other way, though.
 
  • #13
Speaking of operating systems, I'm looking to buy a new laptop..

I've narrowed it down to choices:

IBM Thinkpad T42p
and
Apple Powerbook 15" (superdrive). Apple link may be temporary.

Choices, choices, choices. Suprisingly, I'm actually leaning towards the PB because IBM refuses to give me a student discount, despite attending a prominent (imho) CS school.
 
  • #14
uuh someone sum up the arguments for me, im lost
 
  • #15
Umm, well, why don't we see if we can get this moving again (just a little).  My main gripe with Windows is when it's illogical.  I think Alex made some points on this above...  That and drivers... DRIVERS.  Upon putting in a new motherboard:  Linux boot= couple of clicks, hit enter a few times, ok, done.  Windows boot
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4 reboots just to get a few of the drivers working, and you don't want to defy the "restart your computer now" prompts, if you do, it means trouble.  Well, A few weeks later and I still don't have internet connection in Windows:  "No, we don't want that driver, that one would work too well, etc"...  I've told Alex (Terrak) some of the strange things that have happened in Windows, some of my favorites include, adding new lines to the system.ini so that I can't boot, corrupting my mouse driver (once again, with no hardware of software changes).  I know that every OS has its iffy points, but Windows just seems to have so many more...  And another favorite that I think we can agree on, Windows registry... Yup, that says it, withing a few years of use, you pretty much NEED to clean install, otherwise all of your system files get bogged down.  Sure you can keep your autoexec tidy, keep your boot programs to a minimal, but it really only works for so long.  Well, just thought I'd bring up some points, hopefully get this thing going again.
 
  • #16
This is a little off topic but I have a master/slave combo going. Anybody have any advice on how to handle and setup this. It is already running for some time now, just curious.

Joe
 
  • #18
Windows has an installed life of 6 months.  It must then be reinstalled, because it will begin to rot in the core.  That's my experience, anyway.  I like it when it works, but i manage to FUBAR it within less than a year and have to start over.  At that point, all the reboots to get everything installed can be a bit painful...

Trashcan:

If you plan on using an OS besides windows on the laptop regardless, Apple has some really nice laptops. My roommate runs a startup software company and highly recommends Apple laptops, even though he works on high end Unix systems at work.

If i get to the point this summer that i feel comfortable jettisoning windows, i may pick up a PowerBook myself.
 
  • #19
I'm hoping to convince Phil to let me borrow his for a day or two, but shhhhhhhhh.
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I don't mind losing Windows at all.. I try to look at it from a purely pragmatic point of view. Windows does everything I need, very easily. It works the best for me out of the box, and requires the least customization of all the operating systems I have tried. If I try OS X and like it better, hey, I'll gladly switch.

Probably the most important app I would have to look at would be XCode. Has anyone here used it?
 
  • #20
Well when it comes to laptops I'd highly recommend one of these. .
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  Has anyone else heard this yet??  .. Yeah, I know, I still have yet to contriute anything valuble to this conversation... But it's supposed to be a "heated debate", so lets get some more angry faces here  YARR!
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