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Should marijuana be legalized/decriminalized

  • #81
Listen. I work at the animal shelter. I see alot of cases of neglect and abandonment, like people locking their pets in the house when they move out. They say  because is THEIR pet, they have the freedom to do anything they want with it. And all too often, that leads to mistreatment.

Its not directly harming others because most often the animals are still freindly after we rescue them.
But because they feel the they CAN do this to the animals, and they often say its THEIR pet, and they have the freedom to do what they want with it,a and that includes beating and starving the animals. Its not directly harming other PEOPLE, but that still doesnt make it right.


And some people felt as if they had the freedom to introduce their favorite plant and animal into their property. thats why america has starlings and house sparrows, mile-a-minut vine, carp and the tree-of-heven, all invasive species. And Australia has rabbits from one old guy who tought it would be nicet to have rabits, because they remiended him of home. They dont directly harm anyone, but they severely impact the native ecosystems! thats not right!
 
  • #82
Finch, generally speaking if a person is seriously abusing animals, that prolly not the only thing they are abusing. even though i am a hunter i absolutly abhore animal cruelty. ask my fiancee, earlier this week i she found a mouse nest in a drawer. there were about 6 lil babies that didnt have their eyes open yet. well i really dont want mice running around the house and refuse to feed "wild" mice to my snakes as you never know what they have gotten into, but couldnt bear to see the lil things suffer so i did what i thought was best and put them in a box in the freezer where they would just go to sleep. she thought it was the best solution also. anyways. i think Tamlin is on the same wavelenght with me on this. animal abuse is usually a sign of bad things to come and should be punished just like hurting ppl.

Rattler
 
  • #83
im not a hippi or animal activist or anything. i completley understand
 
  • #84
Capslock,

Alcohol is legal, marijuana is not.  No, you can take my freedom to drink.  Have it.  It is not important to me, so the argument will not get you far with me (but may with others).

The problem is that alcohol was legal to begin with.  Taking it away made the problem.  People had this 'freedom' and it was taken from them.  Marijuana does not need to be added to the list.  I agree that alcohol is the most abused drug.  Hmmm, let's see, What is the difference between them.  Oh Yeah, alcohol is legal!  Legalize marijuana and you will see the same happen.  Marijuana use has increased in the Netherlands since legalization.  It is still not as high as it is in the United States (we have a real problem here with all drugs (especially Meth)), but it did increase. Fear not, the Netherlands has no intention of making its use illegal again.  Again I state, two or three wrongs does not mean you should add another.  If the choice was legalize pot of make alcohol illegal.  Sorry, but make the alcohol illegal.  That will never happen.  I just wish we could adopt the alcohol standards of other countries.  In Japan being publically intoxicated is a serious crime.  Driving over .02 is DUI and hold a very serious penalty.  Good for them.
 
  • #85
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] Hmmm, let's see, What is the difference between them. Oh Yeah, alcohol is legal!

Copper, well, this argument doesn't quite work...We shouldn't make weed legal because it's illegal? Circular reasoning.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]No, you can take my freedom to drink. Have it

I don't buy it. You have to base this argument on what's valuable to the population, not what's valuable to you in particular. I hate brussle sprouts with a purple passion, so I certainly would not miss the freedom to eat them. Nevertheless I would stand firm against a law that made them illegal (might even go so far as to eat them in protest, and vomit all over the lawmakers, lol).

[b said:
Quote[/b] ] In Japan being publically intoxicated is a serious crime. Driving over .02 is DUI and hold a very serious penalty. Good for them.

Good for them indeed! I agree with you 100% on this...Why not the same for weed? Being publicly high is a crime, driving under the influence is a crime, etc. But recreational home use (or even being bombed, I assume) is not a crime in Japan, is it (I would sure miss the sake!). Why can the same not apply to weed?
 
  • #86
to me this looks like a case of both sides not really listening to eachother.


no, thats wrong. we all have our ideas on what should be legal and what shouldnt be (if any)

it seems all our minds are made up and nothings going to change our veiws. Since we have already stated our veiws, cant we just let this subject go?
 
  • #87
Finch, my good man, where's the fun in that? No one is getting roudy or obnoxious, so let us have our fun, man!
smile_n_32.gif
 
  • #88
i kinda agree the "major players" in the discussion have aired their opinions and niether side seems to want to give an inch. i have a feeling if this "stalemate" keeps going much longer ppl may really get hot headed and i would rather not see that. i think most every point of view has been disscussed and i dont see this disscution moving along much more. Copper has made excellent points based on her experiances and so has Tamlin. problem is both their experiances are on the so far opposite ends of the spectrum that they prolly wont ever meet in the middle. personally im with Tamlin but i do see Coppers point of view, i even understand her reasoning even if i dont believe in her stand because of them. personally my experiance is somewhere in the middle which is prolly why i do understand Copper and Tamlin both. like ive stated in past posts, i think it should be legalized b/c i think the general public could responsibly deal with the implications of it being legalized. some may not like it but like any other of ppls freedoms be it if they want to jump out of a plane or off a bridge with a rubberband strapped to their legs, its their choice. let them do it, why throw them in jail for sitting in their living room eating a plate of special brownies and watching tv?

Rattler

Rattler
 
  • #89
Finch...I think a key word that you missed in this is "not harm OTHERS". In otherwords, if what you are doing harms NO ONE (and I believe this to include animals as well), then you should be free to your pursuits.

Abuse of any person OR animal should not be allowed. Cruelty is cruelty no matter how you slice it.

And I don't think this discussion was ever meant to make anyone "give an inch". Its simply airing views and debating issues. Nothing wrong with that.
smile.gif
It shouldn't be anyone's mission to change someone's mind. That MIGHT happen as a result of various issues being debated but its not the purpose.

I will never see a difference between the drug alcohol and marijuana. They are both used for the same effects. If one is ok, why not the other? So some people prefer one or like both.
 
  • #90
[b said:
Quote[/b] (schloaty @ July 09 2004,7:26)]Copper, well, this argument doesn't quite work...We shouldn't make weed legal because it's illegal?  Circular reasoning.  
No.  Your reasoning is alcohol is bad and legal so let's make something else that is bad legal.

Caplock asked me if I would be willing to give up alcohol.  I would.  I don't think a lot of others would.  However one bad being legal is not a reason for another to be made legal and that is my point.  I am fairly boring..no parties here, so best not to ask.  Watch that 'goody two shoes' stuff!  I can hear you! and I blow my nose in your general direction (a little Monte is always good).  I prefer the term 'well controlled'.

Finch is right.  No matter what is said the point is missed.

Also, marijuana use often hurts others, but examples of that are well ignored.  I am actually collecting data and life stories from drug users.  Most are still involved and are trying (and have in the past) to get free, but can not. They are writing these in an attempt to help other before they start. I will never back this evil.  I know, I know, the drug is not evil, its the user that is evil or not. Good, let's keep fewer users then.  Go head, tell me how making it legal will cut the number of user or if it is legal then that will be less crime.  No..the dealers that were selling this will move on to something worse.. thanks.  And to less user, did not work.

Okay that's folks.  All arguments in.

Plantakiss none of them are ok, that is why I do not want to add another.

Ah, discussions....it is a good thing for distance, yes
smile_m_32.gif
 
  • #91
no, it shouldn't be, period. it has been illegal for this many years for a reason. first pot, then god knows what else. there are no borders for this sort of thing. I think that it would mearly open the flood gates. Ok, maybe it isn't the devilspawn of illegal drugs, but what next? 'aww, c'mon, its only cocaine, everyone is doing it'. that is what they are basically saying about pot. Nah, leave it illegal and bust as many people that break the law as frequently as possible. Just obey the laws, they are there for a very, very good reason. I used to work for Customs, and you'd be amazed at how ordinary people get soooo messed up even over this sort of drug.
 
  • #92
Nope. I cannot get behind giving people a police record, prosecuting them, potentially incarcerating them (in our more strict states) over doing something that is the ethical equivalent (arugably better) than drinking a beer like millions of Americans do every day.

Copper says get rid of alcohol too. I actually respect this point of view more than the slightly hypocritical notions of people who favor banning whatever is NOT their personal choice of intoxicants. Her view is at least consistent and coherent. I don't agree with it, but I respect it.

Of course, if we go Copper's route, cigarettes are an intoxicating drug, too. And so is coffee, so they have to be banned (my brother once drank too much coffee, and literally had to pull off the road.) Don't know what we're going to do about Nyquil or those sorts of things...

Casplock
 
  • #93
alcohol has been around for thousands of years. First it starded with the sumartrins, then ancent egyptions. The greeks loved it so much they had a god just for it.

Historical records indicate that in the past, men (and women) drank much more hevily, say 100 years ago. The move to ban it in the past was to prevent all the after effects. The problem was FAR worse then then it is now. And when they made it illegal, it made no difference, as rum and beer was smuggled over the border. So much so that there was really no diference in the quantity available. The only difference was the change in suppliers.

The history channel has a 2 hour documentory on this subject. go see it sometime
 
  • #94
Copper, I DID miss your point, sorry! That is actually a valid argument. If one is bad and allowed doesn't mean you should allow more bad things...Very true.

However, I fail to see how either are bad. Are guns bad? They hurt people. Maybe guns should be done away with completely. Make it tough to do your job, though, wouldn't it? Guns don't kill people....people kill people...I love that line!

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Also, marijuana use often hurts others, but examples of that are well ignored.
Marijuana doesn't hurt people....ABUSE of marijuana hurst people. Just like the guns...
 
  • #95
It seems to me, if humankind is given a good wepon, no amount of willing can take it away once the knowlege of how to build it is known. Chemical, biological, nuclear, and of course, guns.

The united states is never going to rid itself of nuclear wepons. People are never going to give up guns.

They are effective in doing what they were made to: to kill

And unless a even better way of making a portaple wepon at low cost is found, guns will always be there
 
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