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Deadliest animal

  • Thread starter Ozzy
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    luck

Deadliest animal - Here's the poll

  • Eastern Diamondback

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eastern Coral Snake

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cottonmouth

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eastern Panther

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Earthworm

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eastern Box Turtle

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • American Alligator

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • American Crocodile

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Anolis Carolinensis

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Pygmy Rattlesnake

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
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  • #41
I went with the worm just for the sake of bein different... hm now that Ive hitthe vote button Im crushed to find out I am not different
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I guess today Ill haveto run amuck to reassure myself and everyone around to me Im unique and special
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  • #42
Salmonella is a bacteria not a poison, salmonellosis is the disease and the toxins produced by the bacteria cause the disease. And yes the action of the bacteria (the infection) is usually considered a disease. Things like strep throat, meningits, gonorrhoeae, syphilis, typhus, etc are diseases. Things like necrotizing faceits, toxic shock syndrome, food poisoning, dysentery are actually the effects of toxins produced by the infecting bacteria but they are still classified as diseases in many/most cases.

Technically bacteria do not produce "poisons" the produce toxins. Take my word on this, I am a microbiologist.
smile.gif


Now as to the issue of salmonellosis from reptiles. In general this is pure unadulterated crap. It got a big hype a few years ago when a group of kids at a zoo aquired the disease after petting a Komodo Dragon. The story hit the news which naturally blew it way out of proportion. Afterwards everyone freaked and started testing all their reptiles for the bacterial which did seem to turn up an awful lot. Here is the thing that the news didn't bother telling you. The Komodos in zoos are fed raw meat, especially poultry. Who knows what Salmonella loves to grow on? (That is a retorical question) And the high incidence of the bacteria in pet reptiles was almost exclusivly confined to iguanas and box turtles which were being fed either raw chicken or wet cat food that was simply placed in bowls in their cages and allowed to sit for the animal to eat whenever it wanted. Tests on wild turtles, snakes, lizards and all the other great herps have found that the carrier population for the bacteria is extremely low, to the extent that you are more likely to get it from a pig or cow on the farm. I personally have been handeling reptiles (and amphibians) since I was 5. It has been 22 years now and in all that time I have never once gotten ill from them. And for the record I am notorious for not washing my hands so please don't anyone say "Of course you didn't catch anything from them, you washed your hands afterwards" because I didn't (and still don't.)
 
  • #44
Salmonella is NOT a poison, and it isn't exclusive to the Anole (BTW, the Anole is a humble little backyard lizard... it's not dangerous). I used to keep them, brown ones and green. But what I was saying was that all reptiles can give you Salmonella. It's a VIRUS that effects not the reptile but any human who handles a reptile that happens to have Salmonella and doesn't wash their hands with soap and water afterwards. Trust me on this. Like I said, I owned Anoles for a very long time, and I have now owned an adult male, 8 3/4'' Leopard Gecko (Eublepharis macularis... hey cool, I did that from memory) for just south of three years, and I do handle him alot, but I'm always sure to wash my hands afterwards. By the way, it is impossible to know if an individual reptile carries Salmonella, so my Leo could easily have it, but I couldn't possibly get it as long as I wash my hands after handling him. Some tips from moi: A. Never handle a reptile if you have an open wound. 2. Never touch your eyes or mouth after handling a reptile unless you have washed your hands. C. Never kiss a reptile. That's a good way to have Salmonella festering on your lips.

BTW, my Leopard Gecko caresheet is pinned in the reptiles forum.
 
  • #45
your WAYYYYYYYYYYY more likly to get salmonella from going to the grocery store than by holding a reptile. ive had snakes for most all of my 22 years, both exotic and local. never would up with it from them. i have gotten it a few times from restaraunts, and it wasnt sushi. now take in consideration most all of the local reptiles ive caught have been so far away from a sink that i couldnt possibly wash my hands after holding them and being that i ussually carry granola bars and such with me and eat them when i feel hungry it is quite likely ive eaten food almost right after catching snakes and turtles w/o washiing my hands. ive never gotten sick from a reptile.

Rattler
 
  • #46
Oh, and I forgot to mention that Salmonella, the same virus that can be contracted from reptiles, can also be contracted from raw meat or seafood, or meat or seafood that hasn't been cooked enough. So how could it be a poison? I think I have made my point.

My grandfather is a serious germaphobic. He's paranoid about any possible germ. At restaurants, he'll often go to the bathroom and wash his hands, then come back and wash them again with hand sanitizer. And his meat is always brunt black to the core he's so paranoid. I like my steaks medium or medium-well, depending on the restaurant. Some restaurants consider "medium" almost totally rare, all red. Some consider "medium-well" almost black. Whatever they consider cooked well, but with a healthy amount of pink tone inside is what I order.

I don't believe in being overly-clean. Being overly-clean is just as unhealthy as being overly-unclean. You know why? Because if you're overly-clean all the time, and you sanitize every single suspected germ, then your immune system is totally weak, since it never experiences germs, so when you are exposed to the slightest amount of germs, your immune system can't handle it, because it hasn't been able to build up an immunity to the germ, and your body is vulnerable to the germ. It's just like everything else: if you don't experience something alot, you're not used to it, and you don't do well with it; if you don't work with your hands alot, they are tender and can be cut or hurt easily. It's the same with your immune system. One way you can get Parkinson's disease is by being too clean. What do you think vaccinations are? It's not medicine. It's a small sample amount of a sickness or disease, such at hepatitis, tetanus, flu or whatnot, so your immune system can experience it and build up a strong immunity to it. If you're overly-clean, your immune system never gets tastes of germs, therefore, when you get that germ, your immune system is totally new to it and can't fight it off. It's why if I'm in the vacancy of a person or people that are sick with a cold or something, I don't go around with my sleeve over my mouth and nose, sanitizing everything they touch. I let myself get exposed to the cold germ, so my immune system becomes even stronger to it. If I catch the cold, well, the better my immune system becomes for it, and the better it goes next time.

This is why the French rarely get sick or diseased. Other than pointless buttwashing, they're not all that clean, so their immune systems become strong and can fight sickness better than our American immune systems. To make a long story short, we're too clean.
 
  • #47
Rattler, read my above post. It applies to you. Since you've exposed yourself to the Salmonella germ alot, your immune system is used to it and strong against it, so it doesn't affect you. I once heard of a man who works with rattlesnakes. He's been bitten so many times that his immune system is strong against it and can fight it off, so it doesn't affect him; keep in mind that that is slightly different in that rattlesnake vemon is a poison, not a germ, so it takes alot more for your immune system to become used to it, so it's much more impressive. Steve Irwin is like you, and probably will never be affected by Salmonella, as he rarely washes his hands after handling reptiles. BUT: if he ever gets bitten by a poisonous snake, he's in deep crap, since he's never in his life been bitten by a poinonous snake, so his immune system is weak to it.

I don't wash my hands after touching something my gecko has touched, such as his sand, waterbowl or other cagethings, because that way my immune system possibly gets a taste of the Salmonella germ, if my gecko indeed carries Salmonella, and works up a reasonable resistance to it.
 
  • #48
FTG.............salmonella is a bacteria not a virus. Other than that you're right. I had an igauna for 14 yrs and like Pyro never washed afterward, I never got it.
Poison or not, I still think that salmonella is deffinitely a thing to avoid and could very well have been a problem to settlers. I actually voted worm,but....

Joe
 
  • #50
[b said:
Quote[/b] (FlytrapGurl @ July 08 2004,4:26)]Salmonella. It's a VIRUS that effects not the reptile but any human who handles a reptile that happens to have Salmonella and doesn't wash their hands with soap and water afterwards. Trust me on this...

A. Never handle a reptile if you have an open wound. 2. Never touch your eyes or mouth after handling a reptile unless you have washed your hands. C. Never kiss a reptile. That's a good way to have Salmonella festering on your lips.
I do not trust you.

Salmonella is NOT a virus it is a bacteria and very few reptiles actually carry it!!! Please read things carefully and get your facts straight before you counter argue them.

I have been keeping reptiles since I was 5 (I turn 27 this month.) In that time I have had:

too many garter snakes to count (record for one summer was 157)
too many anoles to count
too many fence lizards to count
20-30 leopard frogs
50-100 toads of various species
a corn snake (that I still have, 14 years old)
2 horned frogs
7 box turtles
a black rat snake
5 bull/gopher snakes
2 smooth green snakes
a green racer
3 iguanas
2 tokay geckos
a dozen or so horned lizards
10 tiger salamanders
a Tucson banded gecko
2 fat-tailed geckos
4 gargoyle geckos
a coupld dozen house geckos
and I am sure there are a few I am forgetting

And on top of that I have handled more wild snakes, lizards, turtles, frogs, toad, salamanders, newts, etc than I could ever remember. A conservative estimate would be in the 500-600 range

In all that time I have never washed my hands after holding any of those animals. I have kissed some of them, I have been bitten more times that I can count, I have been urinated on and I have been defecated on and NOT ONCE have I ever gotten sick. In point of fact I have never in my life had salmonellosis.

As I said in my first post, the great Salmonella scare about reptiles was caused by news agencies that blew the whole topic way out of proportion (like they do with everything.) They never got all the facts and now the public has been duped into thinking that all reptiles and amphibians are absolute disease vectors. That is not the case, very few diseases can be transfered from reptiles to mammals, the gross physiologic differences make it almost impossible to survive in both radically different environments. I am not saying that reptiles do not carry Salmonella, what I am saying is that very few reptiles actually carry the disease so it is very unlikely for you to catch it from them.
 
  • #51
FTG your thinking of Bill Haast. he has also taken bites from cobras and lived w/o antivenin. but he has been injecting himself with small amounts of those venoms and many more since the 60's.

Rattler
 
  • #52
Look, don't jump on my back about a little mistake, Pyro. So I was wrong about that one thing. Big deal. Virus, bacteria, sickness, it's all the same to me. And don't start lecturing me on the differences.

Like I said, read my post about Rattler_mt's immunity to Salmonella. You're the same. You've probably been exposed to it a few times, so you're immune system is strong to it. I never said all reptiles carry it. I just said that some may carry it.

I know I'm risking my membership here, but I'm shocked at your immature and childish reaction to my little virus/bacteria mistake. From a moderator no less. And you say you don't trust me just because of that little mistake. So you have worked with reptiles SoOoOoOo much more than me. I really don't give a rip. Experience is experience, no matter how much you have. Look at another thing: I've ridden a horse eight times, and I've only had four official riding lessons, but I happen to have a great instructer, and I know almost everything about how to ride and control the horse, how so sit in the saddle and how to rein the horse, and how to act around the horse, and how to bridle, saddle and groom the horse, and that Western riding is just as hard and complicated, if not much more, than English riding. I may not be an expert, but I know the road and I have experience.

So fine, don't trust me. Like I said, I don't give a rip. I don't need you to trust me. Life goes on.
 
  • #53
[b said:
Quote[/b] (FlytrapGurl @ July 08 2004,4:56)]Rattler, read my above post. It applies to you. Since you've exposed yourself to the Salmonella germ alot, your immune system is used to it and strong against it, so it doesn't affect you...
No your post does not. Salmonella has hundreds of different strains (known as serotyoes,) just like E. coli or the common cold virus, and it is next to impossible to be immune to all of them. On top of that Salmonella are highly specialized at evading the host immune system which is why they can set up persistant infections in animals and people. Have you ever heard of Typhoid Mary?

The reason Rattler and myself have never gotten Salmonella is because reptiles are not really the disease vectors that the news would have you believe.
 
  • #54
Now now, did I say he was immune to everything? I didn't think so.

And I rarely trust the news either. I trust what I know is right and nothing else. Crap, I don't trust you any more than you trust me. I know you're right in areas, but I know I'm right in areas too.

By the way, re-read my last post. I edited some stuff in.
 
  • #55
[b said:
Quote[/b] (FlytrapGurl @ July 08 2004,5:05)]I know I'm risking my membership here, but I'm shocked at your immature and childish reaction to my little virus/bacteria mistake. From a moderator no less.
I don't see how you are risking your membership, I have never banned anyone for disagreeing with me and I am not about to start now. And to be honest I rather resent the implication that I would ban you for something so trite.

And I think you are going a little over the top saying I am being childish and immature. I used the BOLD type in exactly the same manner that you did so I fail to see how I am acting as you accuse. Yes, I am correcting you (perhaps you think too emphatically) but there is a huge difference between bacteria and viruses. Especially to a microbiologist like me. It is kind of like saying that cats and dogs are the same because they are both pets.
 
  • #56
i never said i was immune to salmonella. infact i said ive had it a few times due to under cooked beef. it wasnt a nice experiance any of the times ive had a major bout with it. i get a mild case of it everyso often and can usually nail down why. its never been cause of reptiles but i get a major case every 5 years or so and a minor case about every 6 months. i should cook my meat better
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like pyro said the reason we dont get it is cause the reptiles and such we are pullung out of the brush and ponds dont have the bacteria.
Rattler
 
  • #57
Well, I salute you for being a good moderator.

But still. Whoo, a microbiologist. Oh wow, now I'm scared. I KNOW there is a huge difference. I didn't say they were the same. What I meant was that they can both make you sick and they can both be harmful, but your immune system can fight both. Hey, a cat's a quadriped carnivorous mammal, a dog's a quadriped carnivorous mammal. They're the same in some ways, they're different in others. Bacteria and viruses are the same in some ways, they're different in others.
 
  • #58
Rattler, you have a point. But I never said you were immune to it, did I? If so, I apologize, for that's not exactly what I meant. I meant your immune system, IF ANY OF THE REPTILES CARRIED SALMONELLA, has become stronger for it. Apparently not many of the reptiles you handled had it, which is why your immune system can't keep you from getting it when you eat undercooked meat that contains it. I realize that most reptiles do not carry it. In my first reply about this I was strictly talking in assumption that whatever individual reptile you might handle DID carry it.  I never assume the best, and nobody should. Like this: you never assume an animal won't bite, which is why I watch my lesson horse's head while on the ground. I never assume my lesson horse won't step on my foot after releasing his hoof after cleaning the hoof, which is why I move my foot before letting go. I never assume my lesson horse won't expand his chest and hold his breath when I tighten his cinch, which is why I check it again before mounting. I never assume my lesson horse won't kick if I walk behind him, which is why I keep my hand on his rump when I do so so he knows I'm there and won't get surprised. So, I never assume my gecko doesn't have salmonella. That could get me killed. Literally.
 
  • #59
[b said:
Quote[/b] (FlytrapGurl @ July 08 2004,5:15)]By the way, re-read my last post. I edited some stuff in.
Yes I see it.

FTG,

I can tell you are not going to agree with me and so I am going to stop posting after this because this is really eating up a ton of space and detracting from the topic at hand. Your first post said to trust you and I was countering that as is my right. And yes experience is experience and in most situations people tend to differ to those with greater experience. I have been educated in microbiology and I have been keeping reptiles longer than you. My saying that is not me trying to one up you it is me explaining where my experience comes from and how it affects my comments. It offers others reading this insite into where I am coming from and why I feel I have the right to voice my opinon. I am not asking you to "give a rip" about what I have to say but I do feel like you saying you don't implies that as far as you are concerned I am an idoit that no one should waste their time listening too and I don't feel that is a fair thing for you to be saying.

My posts are in the lecture style and I can even see how it might look like it is directed at you but it is not. It is directed at everyone who reads this. Please do not take it so personally as that was not my intention.

That is the end from me. If you have anything further to say please PM me. Like I said, I don;t want to keep detracting frmo the real point of this thread.
 
  • #60
Dogs are quadripeds but are actually omnivorous.

Joe
 
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