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Presidental candidates

  • Thread starter Copper
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  • #61
False accusation on Heinz. From the foundation: (and we're not talking about Heinz herself, but the Heinz Foundation that has made the Tides donations.)

"In recent weeks, The Heinz Endowments has been accused of using its funding of the Tides Center of Western Pennsylvania to advance a laundry list of partisan causes and fringe political groups. This accusation is simply wrong.

It originated in an opinion column written by a researcher for the conservative, Washington, D.C.-based Capital Research Center. The crux of CRC’s argument is that money directed by the Endowments to Tides is "fungible." By supporting projects through Tides, CRC alleged that Heinz has secretly funneled money to every other organization that has ever received funding through Tides Center and the separate Tides Foundation.

Since first being published in the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, CRC’s accusation has been picked up and expanded in opinion pieces in a number of newspapers, including the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post and the Washington Times. But not even these publications have leveled this allegation in actual news stories.

The reason why is obvious: The charge does not stand up to objective scrutiny. Four facts undercut it completely. First, by legally binding contract, every penny of Heinz’s support to Tides has been explicitly directed to specific projects in Pennsylvania. It cannot legally be redirected and is the exact opposite of fungible.

Second, the Tides Center is a provider of management and administrative services, and we have used it only for those services, not to advance Tides’ grantmaking agenda. Foundations from all across the country-many, like Heinz, with strong centrist agendas-use these services to incubate an array of nonprofit programs. So does the federal government. It is no more accurate to suggest that Heinz supports every one of these programs than it is to suggest that someone who contributes to a specific group through the United Way supports the agenda of every other United Way beneficiary.

Third, the projects we have supported through Tides speak for themselves. They include programs to test the career readiness of area high school students, protect Pittsburgh’s environment and retain young people in our region-hardly an extremist agenda.

Fourth and finally, information about every one of our Tides-related grants is and always has been readily available in our public filings, annual reports and here on our web site. Far from being secretive, we have been consistently open in detailing the nature of our grants to Tides and every other organization we fund."

Indeed, you can find the total grants and what they were specifically for here:
Heinz Endowments grants to Tides

Be careful, Lauderdale, when accusing others of not having a clue.

Capslock
 
  • #62
thanks for clearing that up Capslock.

Rattler
 
  • #63
I am voting for Kerry. I've always been a Democrat, though, to be honest, I dislike Kerry more than any Democratic nominee I remember. He's got a great environmental record. And Edwards was a good choice for a running mate.
However, I have seen conflicting messages from Kerry on health care, and I am not sure what his health care reform plan is. No action at all would be better than what Bush has done (taking away patients rights to sue after mistakes), and I am in support of Kerry's claim that he would create impartial review boards to review malpractice lawsuits. I don't particularly believe that Kerry will do that, since he himself has made conflicting statements on it. Typical for a presidential campaign, but I am still against it.

As for the war in Iraq, Kerry did support it. I don't view him as being wishy-washy at all over that, congress was misled just as much as the public was.

I also don't agree with his support for NAFTA. That should become an interesting issue, since Edwards is against it.
Whether Kerry will act to keep jobs in this country, I don't know.

I feel both candidates, Bush and Kerry, are, quite frankly, liars, and do not have the publics best interest in mind. I am voting for Kerry purely in the hopes that maybe, if we're lucky, he'll end the war in Iraq, and we won't have a draft.
 
  • #64
i HIGHLY doubt there will be a draft. that would practically be suicide. although if Kerry is in it may be required, didnt i read somewhere i was for cutting military pay or benifits? who is going to be willing to do that for less than what they make now? a good friend of mine joined the army and when he joined the airborn from there he said basically he got an extra $150 a month to jump out of planes. that aint very much ppl. and this was only 5 years ago or so. i really dont think we should be cutting these soldiers pay or benifits.

Rattler

PS should a draft happen and i was called up i would go.......my grandfather did in WWII even though he didnt have to after they found out he had 3 kids and a fourth on the way. my uncles did it in Vietnam. in the words of my grandfather when he recieved his call up "If my country needs me I will go"
 
  • #65
Rattler, Bush has cut military benefits. He has cut combat pay, and he has cut benefits to families of disabled veterans.


As for going if there is a draft, I would rather die than fight for a cause I feel is not just. And I feel that way about the war in Iraq. Deposing Saddam was a good thing, but we've killed millions of Iraqi civilians as well. We've also lost thousands of soldiers, and are still losing more.

Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. They did, at one time, and were sold them by Reagan, Bush Sr., and Donald Rumsfield.

Iraq wasn't involved in international terrorism.

If the war ended now, at least some claims would be believable. But, with extremely high unemployment in Iraq, and workers being brought in from the U.S. to do jobs Iraqiis could do much cheaper, at U.S. taxpayer expense, while Iraqiis cannot get jobs to support themselves, is ludicrous.

It would be one thing if our country needed more soldiers. We don't. We need to protect the ones we have, and stop sending them to be killed unneccesarily.
 
  • #66
millions of Iraqies? thousands of soldiers? where did you get that? it is FAAAARRRRRRR from reality. i am waiting for an email from a friend of mine who owns a paper a couple of towns over. when i get it i plan on posting it. it is an interview of a local soldier who just got back from Iraq who is a veteran of desert storm and who has spent alot of time over there during this conflict that ran in their paper this week. this FIRST PERSON view of what has really gone on over there should open up some eyes. now if Curtis will just get around to emailing it to me....................

Rattler
 
  • #67
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] but we've killed millions of Iraqi civilians

There is an "S" at the end of million so it is in the plural form. Iraq has a TOTAL population of just over 25 million. So, in the smallest plural form of million possible your trying to tell me the US coalition has killed 1/12th of all the civies in Iraq?

Military Fatalities to date: 1,012

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.

So exactly where is all of the biological and chem weapons that he used to have, but occording to you are no longer there? Did the WMD fairy come and pick them up for him?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]As for going if there is a draft, I would rather die than fight for a cause I feel is not just.

Yeah, kinda like when we pushed the germans out of Europe. I mean, they didn't do anything to US right?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Iraq wasn't involved in international terrorism.

GOOD GOD MAN! The insane idiot used WMD's on his OWN PEOPLE. If he somehow got a nuke do you honestly believe he would hesitate to push the button? His removal of power is a good thing for all people, foriegn and domestic.

As far as Kerry, personally I think he is a yellow bellied coward.
 
  • #68
Casper,
The number of US military fatalities is 1012. There have been between 11,000 and 13,000 Iraqi military and civilian fatalities during the war.

If you add in the deaths that are attributed to the sanctions since the first gulf war, you still don't get milliions, however.

The WMDs that at one point were there were scrapped. This is what the inspectors themselves as well as many Iraqi witnesses have said. This isn't to say there are literally no component parts somewhere out there, but there certainly aren't the stockpiles that we were led to believe and that would pose a serious threat to the US or even Iraq's neighbors. The weapons they used "on their own people" were sold to them by Rumsfield & company to be used in the war against Iraq. We continued to deal weapons and aid to them even after they did that. They have not used them since before the first gulf war when Bush Sr. was around, so there's no reason to think they suddenly posed some great threat. Did you read the intelligence committee report? It was rather scathing about the inflated claims and exaggerated dangers posed by Iraq.

Whatever your feelings on the draft, this situation is in no way analogous to WWII. We WERE attacked by Japan, and after we declared war on them, the Germans, who were rampaging Europe declared war on us. You cannot compare that to a country totally defeated, heavily monitored and inspected, and without military might for over a decade. It's just not the same.

And I find it highly confusing that you'd back some guy who went AWOL from his plush National Guard assignment over a decorated war hero. Must be that (d) after his name.

Capslock
 
  • #69
Caps,
I am heading to bed, so I will dig in to your post tommorrow. I just had to make a comment.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ] a decorated war hero.

That is an insult to ANY man to ever wear a uniform. I will be more than happy to post links a proof tommorrow. Kerrys "war" record is no better than Bush's Nat. Guard record.
Any man that expects a purple heart for a wound that requires a band-aid is a coward.
 
  • #70
OK, I'm heading up to Lake Tahoe later tonight, and trying to get my vacation home wired up for internet tomorrow. If it works, we'll dig into this. I'd like to see what you've got on that, because I haven't seen anything particularly darning yet. If I can't get the internet working up there, we'll have to wait until Sunday.

Looking forward to a good friendly debate!
Capslock
 
  • #71
Unfortunately, while almost all Vietnam vets put Vietnam behind us, went on to build our lives, and are not activists, John Kerry chose to make his time in service the centerpiece of his campaign. Most Americans think this is a trivial issue. It's as if John Kerry's relatively minor credentials as a junior officer for a short time in Vietnam combat seems to be all he can point to as his value for leading the most powerful nation on earth in the current challenges. No one should deny the valor of this service. But, is that what the American people and the citizens of the world should be focused on for the man who will significantly affect our lives and the lives of our children? John Kerry chose to create this election battlefield. So, he must answer for it, and be willing to face the music he wrote about himself.

Thirty-three years ago, I organized the Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace in reaction to Kerry's organization Vietnam Veterans Against the War. John O'Neill and others joined me, and with the support of tens of thousands of Vietnam veterans, we rebutted Kerry's charges that we were all war criminals. Literally, no one was defending us, many Americans were discouraged by the charges, and we young Vietnam veterans were suffering horribly from discrimination in our efforts to get on with our lives.

Thirty-three years later, the surprise emergence of John Kerry as candidate and his centerpiecing of his Vietnam service stirred many Vietnam veterans to reclaim the image and honor that Kerry besmirched. We knew better. John Kerry continued the past 33-years to consistently misrepresent his activities and the calumny he brought upon us. That led to an enormous groundswell among now middle-aged Vietnam veterans, emerging from every walk of non-political life that we had individually built, to set the record straight.

It is well documented that most of the claims made by Kerry and his Vietnam Veterans Against the War were fraudulent, none of his anti-war vets were willing to provide evidence, and many of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War members had not served in Vietnam. We now know that the true leadership of the vets against was extreme radicals, directed by a Vietnam vet impersonator. Yet, John Kerry has never apologized. Youthful excess and zeal is one thing. Mature hypocrisy is another.

But, clinching the need for our public stand for the Kerry truth is his deceptive pride in it, fouling the perception of us among a new generation of citizens, maybe my son, that enrages so many of us. In April 2001, Kerry wrote that, "We returned home to an America that was indifferent, even hostile. There were no parades, only nightmares. Veterans were spat upon, called baby-killers…" Yet, he continues to not apologize for his leading role in creating just that hostile atmosphere or exploiting it now. Indeed, in a disturbing pattern, only in March 2004 after exposure by those who served with him did Kerry's current National Coordinator of Veterans for John Kerry admit that his own published charge of atrocities is false.

We are not Republican stooges, as Kerry accuses any who oppose him. The proportion of Democrat vets is similar to the general population. We are simply pissed off and, once again, we are forced to stand up for ourselves, by ourselves, and yearn to fade back into our hard-built peaceful lives. We merely ask that America demand honesty of John Kerry, honest consideration of who has really demonstrated the public integrity to lead us, and hope for meaningful debate over our challenging future. Getting the staged uniforms out of his campaign commercials immediately would be the first critical step. Shame on us all Americans if we do not unite to demand this.
 
  • #72
Kerry Flip flops:
Trade with China

In 1991, Kerry Supported Most-Favored Trade Status For China. “Sen. John Kerry said yesterday that he is breaking party ranks to support most-favored-nation trade status for China … ‘I think the president has some strong arguments about some of the assets of most-favored-nation status for China,’ Kerry said.” (John Aloysius Farrell, “Kerry Breaks Party Ranks To Back China Trade Status,” The Boston Globe, 6/15/91)

In 2000, Kerry Voted In Favor Of Permanent Normal Trade Relations With China. (H.R. 4444, CQ Vote #251: Passed 83-15: R 46-8; D 37-7, 9/19/00, Kerry Voted Yea)

Now Kerry Criticizes The Bush Administration For Trading With China. “Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry said on Monday Americans workers were paying the price for President Bush's weak stance on trade with China and other countries. … On the bus tour, Kerry singled out the Bush administration's handling of trade with China and said that country was manipulating its currency.” (Caren Bohan, "Kerry Pledges Aggressive Trade Stance," Reuters, 4/26/04)

Flip flop on fuel:

Kerry Twice Voted Against Tax Breaks For Ethanol. (S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #44: Rejected 48-52: R 11-32; D 37-20, 3/23/93, Kerry Voted Nay; S. Con. Res. 18, CQ Vote #68: Motion Agreed To 55-43: R 2-40; D 53-3, 3/24/93, Kerry Voted Yea)

Kerry Voted Against Ethanol Mandates. (H.R. 4624, CQ Vote #255: Motion Agreed To 51-50: R 19-25; D 31-25, 8/3/94, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Voted Twice To Increase Liability On Ethanol, Making It Equal To Regular Gasoline. (S. 517, CQ Vote #87: Motion Agreed To 57-42: R 38-10; D 18-32; I 1-0, 4/25/02 Kerry Voted Nay; S. 14, CQ Vote #208: Rejected 38-57: R 9-40; D 28-17; I 1-0, 6/5/03, Kerry Voted Yea)

On The Campaign Trail, Though, Kerry Is For Ethanol. KERRY: “I’m for ethanol, and I think it’s a very important partial ingredient of the overall mix of alternative and renewable fuels we ought to commit to.” (MSNBC/DNC, Democrat Presidential Candidate Debate, Des Moines, IA, 11/24/03)

Health Care (This is a big one, most small business owners can not afford to get a health plan for their workers)

In 2001, Kerry Voted Against Amendment Providing $70 Billion For Tax Credits For Small Business To Purchase Health Insurance. (H. Con. Res. 83, CQ Vote #83: Rejected 49-51: R 48-2; D 1-49, 4/5/01, Kerry Voted Nay)

Now, Kerry Promises Refundable Tax Credits To Small Businesses For Health Coverage. “Refundable tax credits for up to 50 percent of the cost of coverage will be offered to small businesses and their employees to make health care more affordable.” (“John Kerry’s Plan To Make Health Care Affordable To Every American,” John Kerry For President Website, www.johnkerry.com, Accessed 1/21/04)
 
  • #73
Alright, I apologize for the millions of civilians killed comment, that is apparently untrue.

But that doesn't make the war any more just.
 
  • #74
[b said:
Quote[/b] (carnivorous23 @ July 16 2004,1:20)]But that doesn't make the war any more just.
Which war? Nam or the present one?
 
  • #75
Could you please explain exactly what is un-just about it?
 
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