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Thread: The federal marriage ammendent

  1. #49
    Somewhat Unstable superimposedhope's Avatar
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    I don't agree with all of what you said but it was well written and an intelligent debate from your side.

    Joe
    \"There is nothing here of interest to any nation, as a matter of fact there is nothing here but humans!\"

  2. #50
    swords's Avatar
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    I stay out of political and religious discussions (in person or here) because I don't really want to know anyones opinion and I'm not out to change anyone. I didn't read any of the resposnes above so that I'm not feeling any alliances or detractions with anyone. I will just make my statement:

    I'm probably the christian governments worst nightmare politically and ideologically and we'll just leave it there... I'm not gay but I support all forms of human rights and get very upset when I hear of inequality in anyform.

  3. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I agree with Wesley that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. Why i believe this: 1. It is clear in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong.
    You just dont get it. While you may disagree with them marrying I am completly offended that MY TAX DOLLARS are being used to promote a religous belief.
    I don't care how your god views gays. This is about gays being able to have the same RIGHTS as us, but because your god says its wrong then our gov't should pass a law to ban it?
    What would you say to an Islamic senator putting a bill on the ballot that all women should cover there faces at all times because HIS god says so.

    I personally dont think homosexual relationships are natural either, but who am I to say they arn't entitled to the same RIGHTS that I am.

  4. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    I agree with Wesley that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. Why i believe this: 1. It is clear in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong. 2. It is unnatural. Reproduction can't occur between two men or between two women. 3. It's a chosen lifestyle. I don't believe people are born homosexual but rather they learn the behavior and lifestyle.
    Ok, so what if the Bible says homosexuality is wrong? Why does that matter? The Bible is simply a religious book that Christians read to instruct them in their religion. It has nothing to do with the USA, our laws, the government, the lives of non-Christians or anything else. It is not the absolute truth for anyone but fundamentalist Christians.

    Reproduction may be the driving cause in sex within non-human species but with our evolution came a complex inner emotional/social life surrounding sex that has nothing to do with reproduction and everything to do with pleasure -- that powerful drive in our evolutionary development -- pleasure. One reason the Bible is such a dangerous document today if used as law rather than parable is that it references human civilization 2000 years ago. To say the least, it is a bit out of touch. Anyway, it can honestly be said that the only form of absolutely unnatural sex for human beings would be sex for the sole purpose of simple reproduction. That ain't human.

    Why would anyone CHOOSE to suffer hatred, bigotry, cruelty, injustice, oppression and second class status to simply pursue a lifestyle? That argument has to be the single most insulting POV that Christians hold on homosexuals. It ranks up there with the horrible bigotry that African Americans are dumb and lazy. Homosexuality is not chosen. It is innate. It is seen throughout the mammal family. I have seen it in my fish. One day they will define the biological origin of homosexuality just as they will that of heterosexuality. It is genetic. One day, Christians will have to see that their book was wrong here and in many other places (Eden) and that science and knowledge has long since superceeded 2000 year old cultural "fairy" tales. Christians must find a way of believing in their god without effecting the rest of us and without pretending that everything associated with its history is absolute truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]
    One thing that irks me about the whole homosexuality thing in America is that if you believe homosexuality is wrong then you're labeled homophobic, a gay-hater, a bigot, close-minded, ignorant, and out of touch. If a person thinks smoking is wrong they're not labeled a smoker-hater. So why are people who think homosexuality is wrong labeled these things?? I don't get it.
    Smoking IS a choice; homosexuality is not. (Comparing homosexuality to smoking reveals the respect one gives it.) darning homosexuals based on 2000 year old cultural ideas is ignorance in the light of our more enlightened, scientific world. When people worry about the non-threatening lives of their neighbors based on race, sex, gender, homosexuality, class, etc. it can only be explained by fear, ignorance, hatred, etc. When they support unjust laws as "morally" right it can only be explained by exposing the underlining fear and hatred motivating those beliefs. Religion has been the worst creation of humanity for 3000 years as it allows human beings to project their selfish egos into an imaginary "divine" power and then turn around and use their all too human imaginary creation to oppress and kill other humans in the name of a "god". This is why religion must never have any part in our government and must always remain a completely individual private affair. Jesus would have been against the death penalty and its Old Testament "eye for an eye" morality and yet Christians support the death penalty. Why? It totally corrupts their belief system -- turn the other cheek. The problem is not that outwardly polite gay-bashers are thought to be bigots but that our culture and its unelected leader do not say so in clear and direct statements. They actually fan the bigotry in the name of the family. Spin. Spin. Spin. Politics. Politics. Politics. Selfishness. Selfishness. Selfishness. Power. Power. Power.

    Bobby

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    Well I definitely agree with Wesley, and Buckeye on this, of course I see with the same eyes as them. Iím also not shooting from the hip blindfolded as some of you. Hereís the deal
    1. A marriage should be defined as a binding relationship between a MAN, and WOMAN. If gay people want to get together and do whatever than in America that is their right. Just donít call it marriage for the sole sake of benefits. I mean after all marriage IS a biblical concept and we are trying to avoid that RIGHT?
    2. It seems that now were discriminating in favor of gay rights. If itís family benefits that the issue why should only people considered gay get these rights? Why not also make those ďfamily benefitsĒ available to say brothers and sisters whom live together to make end meet or two widowers in the same boat. Iím all for equal opportunity but thatís a sham now as well. itís not equal. I may be the most qualified candidate for a job position, but since the company is short of this color or that color someone less qualified is hired.
    3. My friend makes an excellent point, to use a fictional example. The TV show full house The mother dies, and the brother and friend move in and begin functioning as a family unit. In that type of instance shouldnít THEY receive the same benefits as a married couple. Why are we now discriminating in favor of gay rights?
    4. The idiot writing to Dr. Laura was misinformed and uneducated, and had no idea of the impact the last 2000 years has had. This is the only thing warranting a response so Iíll drop it here.
    I always suspect everything could be a trap... thats why I'm still alive
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  6. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] it willl in some way or another be linked to the Bible.
    Time for my 2 cents. Wesley's quote from above says it all. Any reason for thinking being gay is bad can be traced back to the bible and therefore has no place in US law.

    And don't even give me the crud about "Well, the Bible says murder is wrong, so maybe that shouldn't be against the law, either."
    apples and oranges.

    Also, whether or not you agree with gay marriage, don't you think the issue is rather low on the totem pole? Do you realize how MAJOR a constitutional amendment is? Bush want to add an AMMENDMANT? For crying out loud! I can think of SO many other things upon which this energy and money can be better spend...like, oh, say conservation, education, health care....list goes on...

    Let's get our priorities straight, people! ....oh...pardon THAT pun.
    17 Nash Rd.
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    YOU! Outta my gene pool!

  7. #55

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    Bobby,

    Well said, sir! One of mankind's biggest rip off's has been due to the force feeding of the Christian dominated social construct that pleasure is to be essentially linked with sin and guilt, rather than being the natural birthright of all. There is nothing wrong or sinful in sex! Sex is not a punishment meted out by the Creator because Adam and Eve failed to meet the Plan, it is a normal and essential part of being human. Religions have manipulated and controlled this powerful human urge towards attaining pleasure for far too long, and the results in our society are ugly: broken marriges, illegitimate children, guilt and repression, sexual perversion: all stem from an inability to express sexuality and seek plesure in a normal way. Why any rational being would freely elect to embrace such a demostrably destructive system is beyond my ken, but I must insist that it be kept behind closed doors and in private worship and totally out of Law! Unfortunately, the Church is a powerful special interest lobbying force in our political arena. Were this question to be put to the American people, Gay rights would be in place tomorrow. Morality cannot and should not be legislated, and the Church is responsible for far more evil than any Gay relationships ever will be or has ever been. Love in any form comes from the Creator, and the real SIN lies in the pettieness of men who will not recognize this Truth. Shame on them! What would Jesus think about this nonsense? He said he came to destroy the Law, to burn the books - to teach a new way of looking at our human interconnectedness, and this pointedly did not revolve around moral judgements, blind adherence to moral law, or exclusion of anyone based on their real or imagined sins.
    "Grow More, Share More"

  8. #56
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    "I agree with Wesley that homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. Why i believe this: 1. It is clear in the Bible that homosexuality is wrong. 2. It is unnatural. Reproduction can't occur between two men or between two women. 3. It's a chosen lifestyle. I don't believe people are born homosexual but rather they learn the behavior and lifestyle. "

    1=this is politics, hun. the bible is IRRELEVENT! it is a book. okay? it is paper, ink, and a cover.
    2- how do you know it's unnatural? did you make nature? are you god? some creatures dont need another male OR female to make kids, i guess they are unnatural, too. also, if you think that men and women have sex everytime for the SOLE reason of reproduction, your sadly mistaken, my friend. they do it because it feels GOOD. the only time i can think of them having sex for the sole reason of reproduction is when they are purposely trying to have a baby.
    and FYI, we dont need to have sex with women just to have a baby, ever heard of adoption or in-vitro fertilization?
    3- are you gay? ever been gay? well untill you HAVE been gay, dont you DARE tell me i chose to be this way. i didn't choose the harder way to live my life. i was born this way, it happened. i wouldn't have it any other way. did you choose to be straight, buddy? or were you born that way. think of it like that.

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