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The federal marriage ammendent

  • Thread starter Wesley
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  • #121
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i wouldn't mind at all if is was islamic

i know that one of my common roles here is as someone who corrects other poeple a lot, but i cant stand not getting the facts straight.


If you were islamic most likely you would mind. As much as some Christians have issues with gays, islam is much worse. In islam homosexuality is something to be feard. Anyone who is are shunned and become outcasts. The soilders at abu grahib knew that and thats why they made the prisoners lie in suggestive dogpiles.
 
  • #122
Let gay people suffer like all the straight people have for so long --- Marriage.

Why anyone would want to be MARRIED is beyond me ... so let us all suffer equally
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  • #124
I REALLY DONT UNDERSTAND WHERE THE ARGUMENT CAN COME FROM. IF YOU DON'T LIKE GAYS, FINE DON'T LIKE THEM. IF YOU DON'T FEEL THEY DESERVE MARRIAGE OR LEGAL RIGHTS AS COUPLE, FINE FEEL THAT WAY.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS NO RIGHT OR PLACE TO MODERATE THE MORAL OR RELIGIOUS DECLINE THAT YOU FEEL OR THEY FEEL A PERSON SUBJECTS THEMSELVES TO BASED UPON ANY RELIGION OR BELEIF. A LAW IS FACT A BELEIF IS JUST OPINION. IF GOD WILL PUNISH FOR BEING GAY WHAT HAVE YOU TO BE WORRIED ABOUT IF YOU'RE NOT GAY? IF GAY MARRIAGE IS IMORRAL AND YOU'RE NOT GAY WHAY HAVE YOU TO BE WORRIED ABOUT? IF YOU BELEIVE SOMETHING NEGATIVE WILL HAPPEN FROM ALLOWING GAYS TO MARRY, THEN DON'T TALK TO THEM, I'M SURE THEY'D RATHER NOT TALK TO YOU EITHER.

YOU MAY VOTE BASED ON YOUR RELIGIOUS BELEIFS, BUT THE GOVERNMENT MAY NOT PASS LAWS WHICH ARE RELIGIOUS IN NATURE. NOBODY WANTS TO BE REPRESENTED WITH OUT BEING CONSULTED FIRST ABOUT THEIR SIDE OF THE STORY, I'M SURE GOD IS NO EXCEPTION. NEITHER DOES HE NEED LAWYERS TO READ HIS LAWS AND DICTATE TO OTHERS THE MEANINGS OF THEM. HE DOES NOT STOP EVENTS ON EARTH BECAUSE WE HAVE FREE WILL, WHO ARE YOU TO DISOBEY THE NAME WHICH YOU USE TO DIGNIFY YOUR QUESTS?

Joe
 
  • #126
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Because, believe it or not, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and many of our other founding fathers that WROTE our Constitution, were Christains.

Wesley's Post

Thomas Jefferson was an Atheist who was VEHEMENTLY opposed to putting "In God We Trust" on the US currency. He was a Founding Father, but he was no christian.
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  • #127
still waiting..
are you avoiding this question on purpose??
(question for the Christians who oppose gay marriage)


If Gay marriage did become legal, granting gays the same rights as everyone else, how would that change your life on a personal level?
what changes would it make in YOUR individual life?
How would it personally effect YOUR individual marriage, (if you are married)
or..how would it effect YOUR individual marriage if you get married sometime in the future?
basically..how will it hurt you personally?
please be specific, and make sure it applies to your personal life directly..
no sweeping generalizations!

oh! and we arent assuming it will lead to other things..
thats just pure speculation..
people wont be allowed to marry their dogs,
or have 20 wives, or anything else..
just Gays have the right to marry, and thats it..
nothing else changes..
what REAL ways would that effect your personal life?
thanks,
Scot
 
  • #128
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]i know that one of my common roles here is as someone who corrects other poeple a lot, but i cant stand not getting the facts straight.
If you were islamic most likely you would mind.

My facts where very straight, perhaps I didn't explain the question well enough. It was a broad question, not one specific to this exact discussion.

Let me break it down a step further. If we had an Islamic Prez and he proposed a law stating that women must cover their faces in public because that is HIS religous beliefs, would you be ok with that?

How about a pagan who tried to pass a law saying the Catholic church can no longer use the symbols that where "borrowed" from pagan religions?

How about an Athiest that tried to pass a law that makes all religous orgs pay taxes like the rest of us?

Where exactly do you draw the line?

Some of you people need to wake up. This is our constitution that is being VIOLATED. If we allow this now, whats next? Heck, this is the first amendment, the same one with freedom of speach and press and the right to peacfully assemble. Which one of those freedoms goes next?
 
  • #129
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Well, Bush isn't Islamic so really this is a pointless question.

Its not pointless. If you are for a law being passed that violates the constituion of these United States where exactly do you draw the line? Only if its for "Christian" views may the constitution be violated, or for any and all religions?
I just want to know exactly where you stand. Once again, for me, this isn't an issue of gay marrige. Its an issue that our constitution is being violated. I simply can't fathom how so many people could be content with that.
 
  • #130
I agree with Casper. The focus here has turned into a religious debate. It is a well presented debate but it is OFF TOPIC. The topic has to do with ammending the constitution that will allow for a discrimination that is EXPRESSLY forbidden. Morality is not the issue, personal liberty IS. Special Interest must not be allowed to affect our constitutional rights. This is WRONG!
 
  • #131
"Anyway, isn't that like good friends except sensuality added in?"
I wanted to comment on this part. Gay lovers are just "sensual good friends"? My wife and I are best friends. And lovers. I don't see how (outside of Christianity) that my marriage is any different than a gay relationship.

By the way, here in Texas, and many other states, we have what is called "common-law" marriage. These people have never gone to a church or courthouse to get married. But if they are together for a certain time, and introduce themselves as husband and wife, then for all intents and purposes, they are married! They can get all the benefits, life insurance, etc. Not only that... without having ever been officially "married," when something turns sour, they have to get a real divorce! Lawyers, child support, alimony... Why can people that aren't offically married get benefits when gay couples can't?
 
  • #132
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."


And I totally agree that making this amendment to the Constitution directly violates the Constitution itself.


...still not sure how to do the quote correctly...
 
  • #133
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

- Benjamin Franklin September 11, 1773
 
  • #134
I am quite new to this forum, and it only took me a few hours to read all of the threads under this topic! But for some reason I feel compelled to express my opinion. And please that is all that I am expressing is an opinion so I dont need any hate mail.
First my brother is gay and I love him dearly. I hate to see how he has to live his life because of the way other people treat him just because of this difference. But I dont belive that gays should get married and this is my reasoning.
I am a police officer and I have to work as much overtime as I can get just to pay the bills. Still some months I dont have enough money to pay the people that I need to. Does this entitle me to recieve welfare checks from my state? I have a need for the money- Without it my quality of life suffers from time to time. But fortunalty I am physically able to work and thus it prevents me from getting welfare. I can qaulify for some state help, but not actual welfare. Why Because I dont meet the qualifacations for welfare.
I am 22 and I am a US citizen. I belive that the only 2 requirements to become President of the Unitied States are to be a US citizen and 35 years of age. Why shouldnt I be allowed to run for President? Why? Because I dont meet all of the requirements. I can run for city president or even congress, but not the President.
I am a male and my wife will be having a baby soon. I feel that I have just as much of a bond with the baby as her. But state law gives her maternity leave from work. I get none. Why? Because I am male, I dont meet all the requirements for maternity leave. I can take sick leave from work, or vacation but not maternity.
I guess my point is, is that I dont wish to keep hapmail reproductive organs away from anyone. (I dont see how getting married makes you a more happy person, then being in love with your partner) And that is what we hav been talking about isnt it. Happiness. I dated my girlfriend for 3 years before we got married and I am no more in love with her now or no more happy now then when we were just dating. I believe that gays should have some sort of Union equal to marriage just not under the same name. Why not marriage. Because they dont meet all the requirements. I have no doubt that they love there partner as much as i love my wife, but it is not a man and a woman so thus they dont meet the requirements. I dont not believe in religion for much of the previous reasons so I probably will upset boths sides but this is just my opinion. I wish everyone happiness. Craig
 
  • #136
Wolf9... That's what we're talking about. The benefits, not the word "marriage."

I think.... I don't know a large number of gay people. Do you guys want "marriage" or the benefits and respect that come with it?
 
  • #137
Everyone is so hot on what God wants. If that were truly the case, then this issue wouldn't be a drop in the bucket. We as Christians have only 2 commandments from J.C.-- to love the lord thy God with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Follow those 2 commands, and who cares about this issue. God will handle it, and he doesn't need anyone's help. Not mine, or Wesley's. And yes, the very fact that they wish to suppress a certain group, flies in the face of the Constitution. Our government is full of hypocrisy, God is not.
 
  • #138
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But for some reason I feel compelled to express my opinion.  And please that is all that I am expressing is an opinion so I dont need any hate mail.

Wolf9striker, don't ever be afraid to share your opinion! Also I don't think anyone here at terraforums ever sends fellow members hate mail.  We're all friends here who respect each others opinions, even if we have very different views.
smile.gif



    -buckeye
 
  • #139
i have neaver heard of a instance in wich anyone has received hate mail here.
 
  • #140
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]We as Christians have only 2 commandments from J.C.-- to love the lord thy God with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Follow those 2 commands, and who cares about this issue. God will handle it, and he doesn't need anyone's help. Not mine, or Wesley's.

How can we love God with all our heart and soul, and live immoral lifestyles? How can we love our neighbors as ourselves, and not care if they live sinful lives and burn? God will handle it; he doesnt need anyones help, but he will use us all the same. Wether he uses us to build up or to destroy depends on wether we live for him or not.

As for how allowing gay "marriage" affects me, it affects everybody in society. If gays are treated as married couples, society will see that as an option equal to marriage, and thus will it be taught in public shools. Secondly, this could easily be followed by things like public nudity, incest, etc.. Thirdly, as I said earlier,
All great civilizations that ever eventually fell, did so shortly after society started accepting all kinds of sexual immorality

Peter
 
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