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Thread: The federal marriage ammendent

  1. #57

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    Hi,

    I totally agree, individuals should receive all the same benefits as married couples. I've never understood that double standard. It's not like the world is short on human beings so that we need to encourage childbirth and large families any more. We need to encourage fewer births and small families.

    Personally, if we want to define the word marriage as purely a religious concept for heterosexuals, I have no problem with that. Just provide all the rights and benefits under another name for homosexuals. I have no desire to fight for the rights of homosexuals to be married under the name of a "god" and a religion. That's just silly. All I care about is complete equal rights and benefits for all.

    It is funny to me that Christians reject the Old Testament when it gets in the way of their spin but they want the Old Testament 10 Commandments posted in Court Houses and they are just fine with the Old Testament "an eye for an eye" when it comes to justifying capital punishment. Christians cherry pick the Bible to support their personally favorite causes without respect to Old or New Testament except when it comes to homosexuality. Then they hypocritically ignore all the insane laws in the Bible that they themselves do not follow and do not see as the word of a "god" and dismiss them as Old Testament junk. They say New Testament Christian laws -- these are absolutes and true. Funny, how the "jewish god" can be cherry picked but when he was co-opted by the Roman Empire he became absolutely right. Makes you wonder if Christianity's evolution was not overly influenced by the Roman Emperor's idea of his absolute authority; or the Pope inherenting this sick tradition of absolute authority; to now Jesus' absolute authority -- I smell human selfishness in these "absolute" beliefs. Whenever a human being pronouces an absolute that is not of the physical world, I run for cover. In such situations, "god" always seems far too self servingly human in its actions and beliefs.

    No one is discriminating against anyone else by giving gay people their full civil rights as individuals. No one else has to give up their rights to give gays their rights. Now people do have to accept that their 2000 year old religious beliefs are fine for themselves but utterly meaningless in US law. They have to accept that this portion of their religion goes against the logical implications of "equality and freedom for all." The man made Enlightenment which stands behind our laws, in this case, is more "Jesus" than Christianity itself.

    There is an enormous difference between trying to give all races a chance at jobs by taking race into account as one factor in making a decision and the old wholesale discrimination against African Americans so that they had little or no chance to get most well paying jobs. Affirmative Action may not always be fair but it is not reverse discrimination. A white person who looses a job to AA can still go to many other places to get the same or better job. Until the 1970's in America, African Americans could not get a good job or go anywhere else if they were refused a job based on race. Reverse discrimination is an easy knee-jerk reaction used to rile people up. AA may be unfair at times but AA is not discrimination. It is a limitation. That is the difference. Can it be abused on an individual basis -- sure. Just like some businesses are honest and some are total cheats defrauding their customers and the IRS. But abuse is not the same as the old institutional discrimination against African Americans. Christianity cannot be used to deny gay men and women the right to live in respect and acceptance within the laws of the nation they support as law abiding tax paying citizens. The fact that Christians would deny this logic is why so many people find their "love" and their "follow Jesus" to be less than real.

    Bobby

  2. #58

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    I agree. The bible has NOTHING to do with marriges. But, I think gays should be allowed to marry. why? Because its their choice if they want to marry or not! Same as its a criminals choice if he wants to rob a house. Same as its my choice to be a gardner like allan titchmarsh.
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  3. #59
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    biggun, i dont think we should have the same thing for gays under a different name. ever heard of "seperate but equal" well america tried that once and things were not equal.

    an apple isn't an orange, and a different name for marriage that only applies to gays is not marriage.

  4. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ July 13 2004,11:05)]2- how do you know it's unnatural? did you make nature? are you god? some creatures dont need another male OR female to make kids, i guess they are unnatural, too. also, if you think that men and women have sex everytime for the SOLE
    3- are you gay? ever been gay? well untill you HAVE been gay, dont you DARE tell me i chose to be this way. i didn't choose the harder way to live my life. i was born this way, it happened. i wouldn't have it any other way. did you choose to be straight, buddy? or were you born that way. think of it like that.
    Yes, JLAP you are correct some species do not require both genders of the species to reproduce, but since your typing this I assume you're not one of them. So that point's illrelavant
    We are talking about HUMANS. If you want to involve the animal kingdom, and akin their instinct to mankind we're back to the whole murder issue. A spade is a spade.

    I know I'll catch some flack for this one.

    I don't doubt you were born gay, in the same respect I don't doub't my father was born an alcoholic.

    Now is their such thing as a gay gene? Absolutly not.
    First if you're implimenting evolution as a premise for doing what you want then their would be no gay people. Evolution, to my limited understanding, is the advancement of a species over time through the sucessfull adaptation of new generations. Homosexuality is a trait that negatively effects the human species and it's advancement. Secondly if homosexuality was genetic it would have dissapeared a LONG time ago (I.E.) they don't reproduce. Don't even say "well some gays do reproduce" because that would prove it's a choise. I not knocking anyone for doing what their heart tells them, but you can't reject religion, and science and still have a leg to stand on when used for self-serving idealogy. Also throughout history homosexuality occoures within civilazation in waves. If it were genetic it would be much more even, and of course bred OUT of scociety. ........Just a breeders point of view.
    I always suspect everything could be a trap... thats why I'm still alive
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  5. #61
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    humans do not have to have sex to have children, that's the point i was making. we can adopt or creat a baby via in-fitro fertilization.

    being gay and being an alcohaulic are NOT the same and you know that! your father CHOSE to pick up that bottle. i wasn't molested as i child, i have a masculin dad, etc. there is no external reason for me being gay other than i was born this way.

    that comment about gays being a plague is completely unacceptable.

    and as far as genes, many people think it isn't genes, but the levels of the two sex hormones that the fetus is exposed to.

  6. #62

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    Clint has a point.... some people are just born homosexual. My father is a Christian, but he says that too. If gay couples want to marry.... go ahead, I agree with StarMan. Being gay has nothin to do with believing in Christianity.

  7. #63
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    a gay gene? maybe maybe not but im pretty sure that the current belief is that the "hardwiring" of the brain is different between hetero- and homo sexuals. its been known for years that there is a differance between male and female brains, why wouldnt it be so for homosexuals being that the brain is where all this would originate? i highly doubt its a chemical inbalance or anything like that. i truely believe further research will show that the brain structure is different there for it is not the "fault" of the person for being homosexual any more than it is if you are born with blue eyes.

    all this quoting the bibal to hold up your belief that gay marrages should be is actually unAmerican. it is not keeping church and state seperate it is forcing laws because of religion. i also firmly believe all this BS about taking "under God" out of the pledge is idiotic and i aint even Christian, or any other of those major religions.

    weither its unnatural or not is irrelivent, thats not for you to decide or anyone else. in the end it will be between them and their "maker" and you have no buissiness telling two consenting adults what is right and what is wrong because some stupid book says so.

    Rattler
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  8. #64
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    The reason Christians care about marriage, is that it was designed by God for a specific function. The husband and wife support each other and keep each other in check. Out of the union come children. The mother has the unique touch that it takes to raise children. Meanwhile, the husband is able to work to support his family. These days, children are sent to school, where the state is raising them and teaching them the way it likes, and both parents work. Often people marry for the wrong reasons, and the marriage breaks apart. The first example shows a strong unit, in which members are looking out for each other instead of themselves. Traditionally, married couples are are taxed less to enable the mother to care for the children, who become valuable members of society. The second example shows family members looking out for themselves, hence the disfunctional unit. In this case it is unfair that these people are taxed less, because they might as well be individuals. As you can see, marriage and the family have lost their value.
    As for gays, they do not need the same benifits as a healthy family because they are simply pairs of men or women who are attracted to each other but they can still support themselves.
    I can't stop people from entering into gay relationships, but there is no reason such relationships should be disguised as marriage, because they aren't marriage, and don't fulfill the functions of marriage.

    That's all for now,
    Peter

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