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The federal marriage ammendent

  • Thread starter Wesley
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  • #81
[b said:
Quote[/b] (nature_boi @ July 13 2004,4:04)]1) For those of us who are Christians, we believe that the Bible is the true inspired Word of God! That is part of our faith! Its no different than people having faith that the world was created 100 million years ago! That is what they believe! Thus, again, as Christians, we believe the Bible and what it says is true! (thus meaning that we believe Homosexuatlity to be wrong)
Don't you guys love this! This is a conversation that truely needs beer and pizza! I am happy to see that everyone is (for the most part) keeping this thread conversational and not allowing it to turn into an ugly shouting match.

One caution I must point out. I avoid lumping all Christians in to one group. Christianity covers a very large base of denominations. Several major denominations are debating the very issue of same sex marriage as we speak. Also, for me, being Christian does not mean taking the bible at a literal, word for word translation. I am a strong Christian, I would not be here today were it not for my faith in a higher power. But I also believe that Jesus died to take away my SINS, not my MIND.

Be careful about assuming any statement that lumps any group of individuals into one category, (such as Christianity, or homosexual, or republican, or…) will apply to all.

Steve
 
  • #82
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]our country was founded hundres of years ago, their beliefs on this subject dont matter because this is the present and that was the pas

That would mean that the majority of our Constitution is irrelivent, because our founding fathers WROTE the Constitution
 
  • #83
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]we dont need to have sex with women just to have a baby, ever heard of adoption or in-vitro fertilization?

This just proves my point that it's unnatural.  In-vitro fertilization is a scientific process and doesn't occur naturally in nature, and so it is unnatural.  

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]our country was founded hundres of years ago, their beliefs on this subject dont matter because this is the present and that was the past. the morals and beliefs of thousands of years ago have even less to do with today.

Why??  Just because a belief is old doesn't mean it's wrong.  Stealing was wrong hundreds of years ago and it's still wrong today.  

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]other than STD's, the only risks are from people who hate us, beat us, kill us, abuse us, and who won't treat us like real people. wheres your god then? why wont he protect me, his CHILD. even if i believed in him, where is he? can you tell me, a horrid abomination, that?

People are allowed to do horrible things to each other because God allows people to have free will.  In order to have free will you have to be allowed to screw up.


   -buckeye
 
  • #84
Some of you guys need to get your facts striaght. SOme say government needs to stay out of religion. In this case, almost every country in the world has issues, because most have an established religion. Others say that religion needs to stay out of government. In this case we also have a problem, because it would mean that Christians and every other person who believes in another religion would not be aloud to vote because we ARE going to base our votes on our religious beliefs.
 
  • #85
[b said:
Quote[/b] (buckeye @ July 13 2004,4:46)]People are allowed to do horrible things to each other because God allows people to have free will.  In order to have free will you have to be allowed to screw up.
[/QUOTE]
Really? So in Gods eyes, a person is allowed to murder another person for no reason. And if the murderer escapes the police? God doesnt step in to help catch the murderer.
And god doesnt punish people either. The police, court and prison punish people.
 
  • #86
ok here is the break down for this WHOLE debate.....we are talking a FEDERAL law........this means religion HAS to stay out of it completly.......your personal beliefs do to religion have ABSOLUTLY no bearing on the issue. you CAN NOT bring religion into the debate do to the fact the men who came up with our constitution which is th LAW OF THE LAND says there MUST be a seperation of church and state. NOONE has brought up an argument supporting the abolishment of gay marrage do to anything other than religous reasons. this is not a religious debate it is a equal rights debate. nothing more, nothing less.

Rattler
 
  • #87
That is IMPOSSIBLE, because that would mean a person involved in religion is NOT allowed to vote!
 
  • #88
THat would be almost the entire country that would not be alloud to vote!
 
  • #89
no it means religion has nothing to do with the formation of laws. you can vote on a law how ever your religion "tells" you to cause that is your right HOWEVER. this has to do with equal rights. my "religion" doesnt even throw gays into a seperate group. they are ppl and there moral actions as in how they treat their fellow human beings has sole bearing on how they fit into the scheme of things not their sexual orrientation. so being gay is not against my religion and if you take what christianity is truely about which boils down to "love thy neighbor" than it really isnt a problem for you either. how many scriptures are there in the effect of treating ppl as you want to be treated versus those on homosexuality in your bibal?
confused.gif


Rattler
 
  • #90
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Really? So in Gods eyes, a person is allowed to murder another person for no reason. And if the murderer escapes the police? God doesnt step in to help catch the murderer.
And god doesnt punish people either. The police, court and prison punish people.

If God thought that it was ok to murder, he wouldn't have so much about muder being wrong. He gave people choices so that the human race would not be a bunch of robots. Oh He punishes people, it's called a conscience, and He waits until the end of life, when you stand before the Almighty God, who holds the power of life and death. Or as some people have learned, he can do it physically. He can send you to burn eternally or live in great happiness eternally.
 
  • #91
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]no it means religion has nothing to do with the formation of laws. you can vote on a law how ever your religion "tells" you to cause that is your right HOWEVER

Uh you have to vote to form a law.
 
  • #92
to present a law for vote do to the fact your religion says its wrong violates the seperation of church and state. your talking about a law the President of the USA is interested in passing cause his religion says its bad. if thats not a violation of church and state i dont know what is. like i said its not against my religion, and i bet its not against some others. Hinduism is one i believe. your than discriminating against my religious beliefs arent you?
 
  • #93
if homosexuality is a sin, and i'm a homosexual, then homosexuality is pretty much was i am. that means i'm an abomination in your god's (and thus your) eyes.
i'm glad god is ther for you, but he's not there for me.

"If God thought that it was ok to murder, he wouldn't have so much about  muder being wrong.  He gave people choices so that the human race would not be a bunch of robots.  Oh He punishes people, it's called a conscience, and He waits until the end of life, when you stand before the Almighty God, who holds the power of life and death.  Or as some people have learned, he can do it physically.  He can send you to burn eternally or live in great happiness eternally. "
this pretty much is a contradictory to what you believe. acording to your bible, god doesn't send anyone to ####, it's a result of not accepting jesus as your personal savior.


the bible is full of holes, and you need to realize that this is modern day, not biblical days. things have changed. all this makes me sick. why can't you just let us do what we want and be happy? why do you have to force your religion down our throats as a reason to keep us from being happy? the bible is a great book. it teaches us great things, like dont steal, don't cheat, etc. but not everything is good.



tell me, if i was a christian and i was gay, what would i do? how would i stop being gay and thus stop my "sinful ways"? you can't it's just that simple. i was born this way and theres nothing you or i can do to change it. it doesn't matter WHAT you believe when it comes to politics, you can't give me one good reason why i can't get married one day that doesn't involve religion.
 
  • #94
Rattler

What? That whole thing made no sense, sorry, but can you do it again, I have trouble understanding complicated things.
 
  • #95
hehe don't feel alone wesley, i really didn't get in either
biggrin.gif
 
  • #96
Uh a good friend just brought up a good point, if you say I'm descrimating, then you're doing the same by doing that. Also, yes, God sends you to **** because you didn't accept Christ, and thus chose to live a life of sin.

I can't give you a reason, because ANY possible answere would in one way lead to something that the Bible says.
 
  • #97
ok here we go again. GW is/was insupport of the bill that gets rid of gay marriages because his religion says its wrong. that violates the separation of church and state. not every religion view gays as bad i believe Hinduism is one of them and i wouldnt be surprised if buddism is one to. my personal beliefs which can be thought of as a religion have no problems with it either. i view the whole thing as infringing on my religios beliefs. i see no differance in a union of man and woman and man and man. this whole thing falls under equal rights as far as the United States Constitutuon and Bill Of Rights is conserned. what your religion says has no bearing on the issue. your religion and mine are similar and some respects and the main one is tolerance.

rattler
 
  • #98
nooo. you go to #### as an end result of now accepting christ. it's like a consequence. he doesn't send you anywhere.

if you can not give me one reason why gays can't get married that doesn't involve religion, then there are no good reasons. dontcha just LOVE the seperation between church and state?
biggrin.gif



and he is NOT discriminating you by saying your discriminating. he's stating a fact.
 
  • #99
whatever happened to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"? if you ask me, by not letting us get married, your violating the constitution.

isn't this the "land of the free"? afterall?

land of the free... indeed.
 
  • #100
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]whatever happened to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"?
JLAP your getting back to the heart of the matter.

Rattler
 
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