The federal marriage ammendent

[ZAK]

Here goes,
GET YOUR STATE OUT OF MY RELIGION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Marriage is an establishment of Jewish decent began in Biblical times. Ordained BY the BIBLE, and is defined as a HOLY union between a Man, and a woman. The problem you don’t seem to see is you’re on our religious toes. The term marriage is ours, but for your convinces you don’t seem to acknowledge that. If homosexuals want to enter into a union FINE just don’t call it marriage. How can we not use religion in a topic when marriage is OURS (the Christians). There within is the problem.


Now without using religion as a basis. NOBODY HAS YET TO EXPLAINE TO ME WHY WE’RE DISCRIMINATING IN FAVOR OF GAYS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WANT A UNION WITH BENEFITS. NOBODY HAS YET TO BRING UP A GOOD REASON WHY BROTHERS AND SISTERS LIVING TOGETHER TO TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, OR WIDOWS DOING THE SAME SHOULD NOT HAVE THE SAME BENEFITS AS A GAY COUPLE IN A UNION. WHY IF THE WIFE DIES AND A BROTHER MOVES IN, TO HELP HIS BROTHER MAKE ENDS MEET, OR THROUGH ANY GIVEN SCENARIO THEY CAN’T RECEIVE THE SAME BENEFITS. IF THAT’S ALL IT’S ABOUT – THE BENEFITS THAN WHO CARES.


BUT WHEN YOU ATTEMPT TO REDEFINE A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION YOU’RE PUTTING YOU’RE STATE UP MY BACKSIDE. STOP IT. IT IS A UNION-NO LESS LOVING I’M SURE, BUT DON’T USE MY RELIGIOUS TERMS TO DEFINE IT. YOU SEE MY RELIGION IS ALL FINE, AND GOOD, AND RELEVANT WHEN YOU STOOD AT THE ALTER WITH YOU’RE LOVED ONE.
HOW CAN YOU PICK AND CHOSE? HYPROCRACY AT IT’S BEST. SURE YOU WENT TO THE “JP” OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU STILL PARTOOK IN ONE OF MY RELIGIOUS CERAMONIES, AND ON TOP OF THAT UNLESS SOMEBODY WAS TOTIN’ A SHOOTGUN YOU WERE GLAD TO DO IT. HYPOCRITE !

 

[mikey]

GET YOUR RELIGION OUT OF MY STATE...


as for your question about brother & sisters requiring familial recognition by state agencies for support - most already do -- and those that have partner registries (like San Fran, and other cities - allow 2 unmarried persons, straight or gay, to register for the limited set of additional rights the registry affords...)

Labeling things seem to help people accept or reject concept - marriage is a LABEL for a religious institution - and its been extended to a CIVIL contract between 2 people and unfortunately the GOV'T ... the govt recognizes the civil contract and doesnt really care which church you had your wedding or whether the pope, allah, or the rev jerry falwell approved or officiated at it.  The fact remains that gay and lesbian people are denied basic rights in this country that straight people take for granted... lets use and example of SEPARATE BUT EQUAL.

you get married and your wife is added to your company health insurance --
1. does anyone in HR question you? No...
2. do you pay any more than the single + 1 premium.. NO
3. do you pay federal income tax for the VALUE of the insurance your company pays for your wife's coverage?  NO

Gay man signs up for insurance
1. Does the company offer insurance to the partner? MAYBE
2. If yes do you have the necessary LEGAL documents drafted to prove the partnership (i.e. have you paid a lawyer to write it up?) MAYBE if you can afford it... And most of the straight couples can sympathize that the early years of your marriage were financially trying when starting out as a young couple
3. Your Dearest Uncle .. the one named SAM --- wants you to pay the tax on the insurance of your spouse as if it were W2 income... increasing the tax burden on the couple - does that sound like a BENEFIT

so does a companies "Domestic Partner Benefits" sound sufficiently EQUAL while providing enough SEPARATEness?

This is one example -- one RIGHT -- denied gays and lesbian - there are HUNDREDS more... that the CIVIL contract of "marriage" grants by default...

SO take your religious cermony - its doesnt do it for most GLBT Americans they want the rights , the responsibilites, and the respect afforded everyone else.

 

[Casper]

Quote[/b] (ZAK @ July 14 2004,11:01)]Here goes,
           GET YOUR STATE OUT OF MY RELIGION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  
Marriage is an establishment of Jewish decent began in Biblical times. Ordained BY the BIBLE, and is defined as a HOLY union between a Man, and a woman. The problem you don’t seem to see is you’re on our religious toes. The term marriage is ours, but for your convinces you don’t seem to acknowledge that. If homosexuals want to enter into a union FINE just don’t call it marriage. How can we not use religion in a topic when marriage is OURS (the Christians). There within is the problem.


Now without using religion as a basis. NOBODY HAS YET TO EXPLAINE TO ME WHY WE’RE DISCRIMINATING IN FAVOR OF GAYS SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY WANT A UNION WITH BENEFITS. NOBODY HAS YET TO BRING UP A GOOD REASON WHY BROTHERS AND SISTERS  LIVING TOGETHER TO TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER, OR WIDOWS DOING THE SAME SHOULD NOT  HAVE THE SAME BENEFITS AS A GAY COUPLE IN A UNION. WHY IF THE WIFE DIES AND A BROTHER MOVES IN, TO HELP HIS BROTHER MAKE ENDS MEET, OR  THROUGH ANY GIVEN SCENARIO  THEY CAN’T RECEIVE THE SAME BENEFITS. IF THAT’S ALL IT’S ABOUT – THE BENEFITS THAN WHO CARES.


        BUT WHEN YOU ATTEMPT TO REDEFINE A RELIGIOUS  INSTITUTION YOU’RE PUTTING YOU’RE STATE UP MY BACKSIDE. STOP IT. IT IS A UNION-NO LESS LOVING I’M SURE, BUT DON’T USE MY RELIGIOUS TERMS TO DEFINE IT. YOU SEE MY RELIGION IS ALL FINE, AND GOOD, AND RELEVANT WHEN YOU STOOD AT THE ALTER WITH YOU’RE LOVED ONE.
HOW CAN YOU PICK AND CHOSE? HYPROCRACY AT IT’S BEST. SURE YOU WENT TO THE  “JP” OR WHATEVER, BUT YOU STILL PARTOOK IN ONE OF MY RELIGIOUS CERAMONIES, AND ON TOP OF THAT UNLESS SOMEBODY WAS TOTIN’ A SHOOTGUN YOU WERE GLAD TO DO IT. HYPOCRITE !

This is going to be fun.

First of all, my Gov't borrowed the TERM of marriage. If I get married in front of a JP it is in no way a religious cerimony, entity, sacrament or whatever else you want to call it. It is a legal action.

So, you have a problem with us borrowing the term?

I don't know your religion, but let me use the Catholics as an example here.
Lets start with the Mother Mary. Every statue or portrait of the Mother Mary I have ever seen matches the pagan Masonics (which where around BEFORE Christ) statues of Isis. Coincidence maybe..

The Monstrance that priests put the Holy Eucharist in was originaly called an Osiris, used by the Egyptians LONG before Jesus.

IHS is seen in the church and on priests atire as well.
IHS is the egyptian symbol that stood for Isis, Horus and Seb.

Lets look at communion itself.
In ancient Babylon they worshiped the sun god "Baal". This religion then moved into Egypt using different names. On the altars of Egypt where sun shaped wafer made of unleavened bread (ringing any bells?) These wafers were consecrated by the Egyptian priests and supposedly they magically became the flesh of the sun god Osiris. This is called transubstantiaton. Then thy ate their god..

Heck, the term priest was taken from the Jewish religion.

ALL religions beg and borrow, so don't you dare criticise the gov't from borrowing a simple TERM. MARRIAGE IN THE EYES OF THE STATE DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME THING AS MARRIAGE IN THE EYES OF THE CHURCH.

Quote[/b] ]How can we not use religion in a topic when marriage is OURS (the Christians).

Do a little research and you will see that there isn't much that the christians use in their cerimonies that is really "theirs" its all borrowed.

Quote[/b] ]BUT YOU STILL PARTOOK IN ONE OF MY RELIGIOUS CERAMONIES, AND ON TOP OF THAT UNLESS SOMEBODY WAS TOTIN’ A SHOOTGUN YOU WERE GLAD TO DO IT. HYPOCRITE !

Any pagan can say the same exact thing to you everytime you take communion (if that is part of your religion, making an assumption) HYPOCRIT!

Thank you, please come again.

 

[scottychaos]

Quote[/b] (rubrarubra @ July 14 2004,4:52)]

Quote[/b] ]We as Christians have only 2 commandments from J.C.-- to love the lord thy God with all your heart and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Follow those 2 commands, and who cares about this issue. God will handle it, and he doesn't need anyone's help. Not mine, or Wesley's.

How can we love God with all our heart and soul, and live immoral lifestyles?  How can we love our neighbors as ourselves, and not care if they live sinful lives and burn?  God will handle it; he doesnt need anyones help, but he will use us  all the same.  Wether he uses us to build up or to destroy depends on wether we live for him or not.

As for how allowing gay "marriage" affects me, it affects everybody in society.  If gays are treated as married couples, society will see that as an option equal to marriage, and thus will it be taught in public shools.  Secondly, this could easily be followed by things like public nudity, incest, etc..  Thirdly, as I said earlier,
All great civilizations that ever eventually fell, did so shortly after society started accepting all kinds of sexual immorality

Peter

Quote[/b] ]As for how allowing gay "marriage" affects me, it affects everybody in society.

No, it doesnt. it wont effect me in the slightest!
not an acceptable answer to my question, because your answer does not effect YOUR life directly, please try again.

Quote[/b] ]If gays are treated as married couples, society will see that as an option equal to marriage, and thus will it be taught in public shools.

No, it wont..you just made that up.
please stick to reality.
and what will be taught in public schools?
thats gays have the right to marry?
so what if that is taught in schools?
not an acceptable answer to my question, because your answer does not effect YOUR life directly, please try again.

Quote[/b] ]Secondly, this could easily be followed by things like public nudity, incest, etc.

no, it wont.
Gay marriage is already legal in other countries, and none of those things have happened there.
that is an imaginary fear, not based on any reality whatsoever.
you made it up based on nothing real.
not an acceptable answer to my question, because your answer does not effect YOUR life directly, please try again.

Quote[/b] ]Thirdly, as I said earlier,
All great civilizations that ever eventually fell, did so shortly after society started accepting all kinds of sexual immorality

no, they havent, that is also a made up fear, not based on reality..
not an acceptable answer to my question, because your answer does not effect YOUR life directly, please try again.

so! you did not answer my question at all..
how will Gay marriage effect YOU YOU YOU YOU personally??
in YOUR daily life?
please try again..
Scot

 

[Clint]

rubra rubra- you say that gay marriage will lead to other things like public nudity and incest, you havn't the slightest clue what your talking about. if gay marriage leads to public nudity and incest, so would straight marriage.


that's completely ignorant, and if they do start teaching kids in schools that being gay is ok and you can get married (which they won't) , so what? your discriminating against gays and thus your no better than a racist.

 

[Clint]

as far as how gay marriage will affect MY life personally, it would make me be treated like an equal in society. it will make me happy because i'd be able to spend the rest of my life with my lover.

as someone said that gay lovers sound like "sensual good friends" , would you have sex with your FRIEND? when you have sex with someone they become more than a friend, sorry.

 

[scottychaos]

Gay marriage SHOULD be allowed because:

1. it will make the stock market to rise to unprecidented levels and result in great wealth for all americians.

2. All great civilizations throughout history got free cookies and milk after allowing gay marriage.

3. Jesus will return, declare America the only world power, and George W. Bush will be declared Emperor of all the earth...
by Jesus personally.

4. there will be no more wars. ever.

5. All birds are gay, they never have hetereosexual sex, and they have survived for millions of years.

6. the upper atmosphere is comprised mostly of really cold air,
and this early christian guy, "Bob the really smart and rightious", proved 2,000 years ago that if the upper atmosphere should ever grow warm, then gay marriage should not be allowed..well, the upper atmosphere remains cold! therefore thats a sign that God approves of Gay marriage..

(I just wanted to see what it felt like to make up stupid pointless arguements to support my opinion, and then believe they are true..why should the christians have all the fun?
im very curious what its like to take utterly fictional, made-up fears and then believe them to be totally and completely true..
I tried! but hard as I try, I just cant believe those things I just wrote are really, factually true..how do they do it?? hmmm..amazing..)


Scot

 

[Capslock]

Someone needs to tell ZAK that gay marriage isn't mandatory.

And where did the notion come from that marriage belongs to his religion?

Incredible.

Capslock

 

[The Griffin]

I get two 15 minute breaks at work, and I have only now got to page 14, lol. Maybe I can rspond to something if I ever get to the end.

 

[ZAK]

Quote[/b] (Casper @ July 14 2004,10:57)]So, you have a problem with us borrowing the term?

I don't know your religion, but let me use the Catholics as an example here.
Lets start with the Mother Mary. Every statue or portrait of the Mother Mary I have ever seen matches the pagan Masonics (which where around BEFORE Christ) statues of Isis. Coincidence maybe..

The Monstrance that priests put the Holy Eucharist in was originaly called an Osiris, used by the Egyptians LONG before Jesus.

IHS is seen in the church and on priests atire as well.
IHS is the egyptian symbol that stood for Isis, Horus and Seb.

Lets look at communion itself.
In ancient Babylon they worshiped the sun god "Baal". This religion then moved into Egypt using different names. On the altars of Egypt where sun shaped wafer made of unleavened bread (ringing any bells?) These wafers were consecrated by the Egyptian priests and supposedly they magically became the flesh of the sun god Osiris. This is called transubstantiaton. Then thy ate their god..

Heck, the term priest was taken from the Jewish religion.

ALL religions beg and borrow, so don't you dare criticise the gov't from borrowing a simple TERM. MARRIAGE IN THE EYES OF THE STATE DOES NOT MEAN THE SAME THING AS MARRIAGE IN THE EYES OF THE CHURCH.

Quote[/b] ]How can we not use religion in a topic when marriage is OURS (the Christians).

Do a little research and you will see that there isn't much that the christians use in their cerimonies that is really "theirs" its all borrowed.

Quote[/b] ]BUT YOU STILL PARTOOK IN ONE OF MY RELIGIOUS CERAMONIES, AND ON TOP OF THAT UNLESS SOMEBODY WAS TOTIN’ A SHOOTGUN YOU WERE GLAD TO DO IT. HYPOCRITE !

Any pagan can say the same exact thing to you everytime you take communion (if that is part of your religion, making an assumption) HYPOCRIT!

Thank you, please come again.

Well I didn't think you'd haul off and make my point for me

,But I appreciate it.

AS far a Catholism (sp?) is concerned of course it's well documented that it was influenced by the pagan Roman empire. I don't consider catholics to be protestants. I'm well aware of the unintended idol worship pagan influence that has invaded that sect.

None the less you're still referring to religions borrowing from one another. Why would you care it's apples to apples.
You seem to have the problem with religion in govmt., and while I don't always agree I can see some of you're points. But, by you're own stantard govmt. should not borrow from religion thats the apples to oranges. If it's true seaperation you want than completely purge the system of ANY religious presence. The problem I have is when people use religion because of it's convience, and then turn around and denounce practices of their choosing because it dosn't suite their mood at the moment.

On a side note the only differance between Judeism , and Christianity is salvation Vs. Atonement. We believe in that the Messiah has already established His kingdom, and the Jews are still waiting for him. Which seems funny because their own book said they'd reject Him when he came. To my mind Christianity is the story of the Jews PART 2, but we both have the same beginning so I'm quite aware of where the title of preist came from.

 

[Capslock]

"Marriage" in the sense of the word used in the current controversy, is strictly a legal contract. The religious notion of "marriage" is whatever each religion decides. In this sense, gays have been married for decades already. No religion is allowed to own the concept or define it's prerequisites.

All we're talking about is the secular legal and financial contract of marriage, which has NO religious component. I've been to several marriages where the word "God" was never used, and they are legal, binding marriages.

Capslock

 

[ZAK]

Quote[/b] (scottychaos @ July 14 2004,11:01)]

Quote[/b] ]Secondly, this could easily be followed by things like public nudity, incest, etc.

no, it wont.
Gay marriage is already legal in other countries, and none of those things have happened there.
that is an imaginary fear, not based on any reality whatsoever.
you made it up based on nothing real.
not an acceptable answer to my question, because your answer does not effect YOUR life directly, please try again.

Quote[/b] ]Thirdly, as I said earlier,
All great civilizations that ever eventually fell, did so shortly after society started accepting all kinds of sexual immorality

no, they havent, that is also a made up fear, not based on reality..
not an acceptable answer to my question, because your answer does not effect YOUR life directly, please try again.

so! you did not answer my question at all..
how will Gay marriage effect YOU YOU YOU YOU personally??
in YOUR daily life?
please try again..
Scot

On the second point ah, yeah there no public nudity in Europe or anything. yeah theres no rampant spread of disease in Asia, or Africa where these lifestyles are tolerated. Maybe instead of wholesale rejection of a fact you sholud do a little research first on the claims. Just because it's not true in YOU'RE MIND dosen't mean it's not based in reality.

On the third point.

AH-heMMMMMMMM.
(1)Medo- Presian Empire
(2) Babylonian Empire
(3) Roman Empire
(4)England's invasion of Scottland

On a wonderful side note Scandinavian countries which are probably on the forefront of Gay rights are also debating the merits of TRANSGENERATIONAL relationships. Do you know what we call an adult in that kind of relationship here in the USA a PEDOPHYLE.

 

[Capslock]

Homosexuality is tolerated in Africa I think you need to check your facts, ZAK. Homosexuality is strictly prohibited over there. Contrast that with Europe, where it is tolerated, and AIDS levels are much, much, much lower. And I'm not aware of nudity in Europe being even a distraction, much less a danger.

Again, gay families and people are neither created nor destroyed by gay marriage. The ONLY question is whether or not they get the legal and financial benefits that other families get.

Unless, that is, there's another ammendment planned after this one that goes further...

Capslock

 

[Casper]

Zak:

For the sake of saving at least a tiny bit of server space I am not going to quote you are go into a long spill.

But... Your entire arguement is based around the fact that we use a WORD not a meaning that is religous? No offense but that is pretty darn weak. Our entire language is borrowed, that doesn't mean the our laws affecting liberty should be influenced by the French simply because we borrowed the word from them. (Not sure about the accuracy just trying to make a point.)

 

[Casper]

Quote[/b] ]On the second point ah, yeah there no public nudity in Europe or anything. yeah theres no rampant spread of disease in Asia, or Africa where these lifestyles are tolerated. Maybe instead of wholesale rejection of a fact you sholud do a little research first on the claims. Just because it's not true in YOU'RE MIND dosen't mean it's not based in reality.

On the third point.

AH-heMMMMMMMM.
(1)Medo- Presian Empire
(2) Babylonian Empire
(3) Roman Empire
(4)England's invasion of Scottland

On a wonderful side note Scandinavian countries which are probably on the forefront of Gay rights are also debating the merits of TRANSGENERATIONAL relationships. Do you know what we call an adult in that kind of relationship here in the USA a PEDOPHYLE.

This I will quote.

So, using YOUR EXACT ARGUEMENT it would benifit this country to ban religion as a whole. Why, you ask? Well, we have people in the world that are using religion as an excuse to kill and commit terrorist activities. Therefore, it MUST be bad and therefore it should be banned. Heck, we need an amendment to the constitution banning religion right now! Put it right under the gay marriage one.

Your arguement= Homosexuality can lead to worse things such as pedophyle, public nudity and the fall of empires.

My arguement= Religion can lead to worse things such as murder, terrorism and idiots flying planes into buildings.

 

[sundewguy]

Britney Spears can legally marry a guy for 55 hours but gay couples can't get married... ever? I was wondering if people read my "common'law" marriage post. Haven't read any comments on that yet.
No one has answered my question!!!

Everyone else is saying that!

 

[rattler]

sundewguy......we have those laws here in Montana. not sure where gays would fall into on this subject as it varies from state to state. i read it over once about a year ago because i wanted to check on some things being that my fiancee and i have been together long enough to qualify and we dont want to be legally married YET so i had to make sure we havent officially been married the common law way. it may be an issue worth looking into in your individual state.

Rattler

 

[Clint]

"Homosexuality can lead to worse things such as pedophyle, public nudity and the fall of empires."

that's the bigest pile of crap i've ever heard. your ideas desgust me. i'm utterly revolted by this. you dont know what your talking about and your talking out of your butt. this is a poor choice of words, but i can't truely speak my mind in a public forum.

FYI, most pedophyles are straight. FYI, if public nudity is such a big deal with you, then advert your eyes my friend. your god made the naked body, and your ashamed? and FYI the fall of empires had nothing, NOTHING to do with homosexuals.

human words can not express this level of ignorance.

 

[buckeye]

Well unfortunately it looks like the homosexual marriage amendment has been rejected in the senate.  It failed 50-48.  It had to get 60 votes to bring debate to a close so then it could have an actual vote in which they'd have to get 66 votes for it to be approved by the Senate.  Oh and guess who the two were that didn't vote on it?  Kerry and Edwards!!!!  Good to see they're still not doing the job they were elected to do!  I think it's great!!  Every vote they miss gives the Republicans a 51 to 47 advantage on the Democrats (& 1 Independent who votes with the Dems.)!!

Quote[/b] ]If Gay marriage did become legal, granting gays the same rights as everyone else, how would that change your life on a personal level?
what changes would it make in YOUR individual life?
How would it personally effect YOUR individual marriage, (if you are married)
or..how would it effect YOUR individual marriage if you get married sometime in the future?
basically..how will it hurt you personally?
please be specific, and make sure it applies to your personal life directly..
no sweeping generalizations!

Why do people who oppose homosexual marriage have to answer this question??  Just because it may not affect me personally can't I still have an opinion on it.  I believe wealthier people should get tax cuts like the rest of us do but I'm not even close to being wealthy and so it wouldn't affect me directly.  So then am i not allowed to have an opinion on that either??  What about the war in Iraq.  Unless a person is over in Iraq or they have a spouse, family member or friend there then the war doesn't affect them directly now does it?  Are they allowed to have an opinion on the war?? We each have so many opinions on matters that don't really affect us directly.  But should we be allowed to have these opinions??  I think we should. Don't you see how lame your question really is??


   -buckeye

 

[Starman]

Quote[/b] (Casper @ July 14 2004,2:36)]Your arguement= Homosexuality can lead to worse things such as pedophyle, public nudity and the fall of empires.


My arguement= Religion can lead to worse things such as murder, terrorism and idiots flying planes into buildings.

What the ####?! Why can homesexuality lead to these things?!
Why is being gay so bad?! I have not seen anything more stupid in my life, They are people just like us for God sake!




True, religion does lead to those things. You see, most terroris groups are religious, the palastinians are saying:
"We shall not rest untill every isrealy is dead."
Why do they say that? Because iths their religion to
kill every isrealy!