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Thread: Why no sarracenia in nebraska?

  1. #1
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    (I just made a post on another thread, and thought the topic deserved its own topic)

    I wonder why Nebraska doesent have any Sarrs?
    why not?
    Why is Sarracenia Purpurea only along east coast, and ringing the great lakes?
    why not further west?, why not out into the plains states?
    Montana, the Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas..
    why not through the Rockies?
    are there not suitable bog climates in those states?
    I imagine there must be..
    The climate of Montana isnt much different than New York state, or Ontario..
    If Purpurea can survive up near Hudson bay in Canada, im sure it take anything winters in the Rockies can dish out..
    could it be it just hasnt got that far yet in its travels?
    (naturally I mean)
    suppose humans didnt exist, would purpurea keeps moving westward?
    probably..(but now, with humans here, it wont have the chance to move much naturally..unless we go extinct..which I still hope for)

    I propose that Sarracenia Purpurea, being the most widespread of the Sarrs right now, is simply still in the process of its expansion. Here in our time, we are just observing where its range happens to be RIGHT NOW..
    but in thousands and millions of years, it will keep spreading..
    (thats assuming we go extinct..a totally different topic..but very likely IMO..im all for it.)

    AND!!!! if Darlingtonia is related to Sarracenia, how did it get all the way to the pacific coast by itself?!
    with no other relatives in between?!
    probably the last ice-age cleared out a lot of marsh habitats,
    and the building and uplift of the Rockies also created landscapes and climates unsuitable for sarrs, when perhaps before the mountains existed, sarrs (or their evolutionary ancestors) existed throughout the west?!
    then the mountains came up, great plains developed, desert south west developed, leaving our modern sarrs in the east, and darlingtonia trapped in suitable climatic pockets in the extreme west..
    has anyone ever heard of any sarr fossils found?
    and where?
    Scot

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    Somewhat Unstable superimposedhope's Avatar
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    We don't have any bogs. We do have ponds but it doesn't grow any sphagnum. Our wetlands are pretty limited, and the few that are here are being destroyed pretty quickly. Actually Tom Osborne (ex-Huskers coach) is fighting to save these wetlands as the resting point for quite a few birds namely some kind of crane. Anyway the only native CP is U. vulgaris and one other one. I have never seen these in habitat though. I also wonder if Sarr purp. would survive naturally through our winters. Very extended frosts. I had thought about putting some inground next spring and let them be.

    Joe
    \"There is nothing here of interest to any nation, as a matter of fact there is nothing here but humans!\"

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    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Joe,
    if they had the proper habitat (bog) im sure Purps could survive..
    they live in the wild here in western NY, and way up north into Canada..
    we have "extended frost" that extends from late October straight through April! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_k_ani_32.gif[/img]
    I doubt anywhere in the lower 48 has winters any worse than up here.
    even famous Fargo is no worse than here..
    Frank Sinatra said, referring to Sarracenia Purpurea and New York "if they can make it there, they can make it anywhere"..

    it would make sense that there are no sarrs across the plains if there no habitats to support them..but..there must have been at one time!
    the existance of Darlingtonia indicates there must have once been pitchers all across the country..

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    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I doubt anywhere in the lower 48 has winters any worse than up here.
    The dakotas


    Most of the wetlands here in the plains are seasonal. They also go trough yearly cycles of dry and wet. Many dry out completely. And Sars would have to recolinize these areas from other wet areas each time the marshes dried up. The water levels fluctuate greatly due to highly variable rainfall. And Plants can be high and dry one year and completely submurged the next. With the water fluctuations, isects also go trough variable cycles. During dry periods most wetland insects die, and their eggs lay in wait for favorable conditions. Others go trough several year cycles. Thers not many flowers around here that last all season, and at certain times of the growing year most insects that would be attracted to nectar are dormant and wating for the next bloom cycle.

    Take into account these variables and the climate, and you get large swaths of land generaly unsuitable for perrenials like sars. And take into account inscect population numbers troughout the year...

    Higly unlikely
    that makes no logic

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    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    In the past perhaps conditions were favorable... but not now.
    that makes no logic

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    yeah, it's pretty much a lack-of-habitat kind of thing.

  8. #8
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    and if your talking about long term survivability, its the neps yous should be most worried about. Their habitat will be gon by the end of this cetury. Illegal logging in preserves has even eliminated some parks off the map
    that makes no logic

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