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Thread: War on squirrels!

  1. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I THINK I understand.... you just think that god created everything in the universe for the advantage of humans and that humans have the right to do anything with their "property" (I'm not talking about YOU travis... I don't even know you... just to the people that applies... once again)
    {{{{{{pfft}}}}} uh ok.

    For people that think killing is so bad...people that just BS about hunting saying it is so crule. Excuse me but hunters do a lot more then people that gripe about killing animals. We have organizations such as: Ducks unlimited, Turkey Federation, grouse society, and many more. I for one support these organizations, I wonder what some of you do, besides run your mouth about killing animals? You realise that people that own houses *everyone of you are taking up land* consuming and distroying wildlife. Plus the pure fact we have over 6 billion people on planet Mearth, animals will suffer. Until a comet hits us or something...then we will have rats and cockroaches.

    I am a very safe hunter and yes I do cripple a few animals. So do preditors in wildlife...Go ahead and quote and pick me apart, for one I do my part. Please do not go assuming until you get some facts on people! This is why I try to stay out but it is hard because I am an outdoors person...I would perfer a mod to lock this topic. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif[/img]
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

    http://www.nasarracenia.org/

  2. #242

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    No problem shokuchuu! I just think this is getting a little too personal with people. And I agree, I also think we should tone it down a bit.
    \"May you ever walk comfortably in the shadows; neither blinded by the light nor lost in the dark.\"-i have no idea

    \"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.\"-Einstein

  3. #243
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    lol, i said the same thing a little while ago pretty much.

    two arguments you'll never win are about religion and politics [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]

  4. #244
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    i dont see a reason for the topic to be locked, no one is getting upset except you, travis. please don't consider that an attack because i assure you it isn't

    if i remember correctly, one of those organizations tried to keep their members from killing some sort of bird (a certain duck maybe?) so they could kill many more the next year. don't ask me to tell you where i got this info, it was a long time ago but if you search through the posts/information at peta you'll find it eventually.

  5. #245

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    ok... now I feel bad for portraying all creationists badly.... they're not ALL that stupid.
    there are still MANY errors in this site... and once again, if you're in doubt, you can PM me or something and I'll be glad to point them out. I actually wrote them a BIG LONG letter once... I sent it.... after months of no reply and no change in their site, I sent it again.... still nothing. well... I say they're ignoring the facts. and I hate it how they portray evolutionists badly.
    so anyway, it's interesting to know what other people think about evolution.
    http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/topiclist.html
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  6. #246
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Today, hunting, which was a crucial part of survival 100,000 years ago, is nothing more than a violent form of recreation that is unnecessary for the subsistence of the vast majority of hunters.1 Hunting has contributed to the extinction of animal species all over the world, including the Tasmanian tiger2 and the great auk.3

    Although less than 5 percent of the U.S. population hunts,4 it is permitted in many wildlife refuges, national forests and state parks, and other public lands. Forty percent of hunters kill animals on public land,5 which means that every year, on the half-billion acres of public land in the U.S., millions of animals who “belong” to the more than 95 percent of Americans who do not hunt are slaughtered and maimed by hunters,6 and by some estimates, poachers kill just as many illegally.7

    Conservation and Management Programs Fail
    To attract more hunters (and their money), federal and state agencies implement programs—often termed “wildlife management” or “conservation” programs—to boost the number of “game” species so that there are plenty of animals for hunters to kill and, consequently, plenty of revenue from the sale of hunting licenses.

    Duck hunters in Louisiana persuaded the state wildlife agency to direct $100,000 a year toward “reduced predator impact,” which involved trapping foxes and raccoons so that more duck eggs would hatch, giving hunters more birds to kill.8 The Ohio Division of Wildlife teamed up with a hunter-organized society to push for clear-cutting (decimating large tracts of trees) in Wayne National Forest to “produce habitat needed by ruffed grouse.”9

    In Alaska, the Department of Fish and Game is trying to increase the number of moose for hunters by “controlling” the wolf and bear populations. Grizzlies and black bears have been moved hundreds of miles from their homes—two were shot by hunters within two weeks of their relocation, and others have simply returned to their homes10—and wolves have been slaughtered in order to “let the moose population rebound and provide a higher harvest for local hunters.”11 In the early 1990s, a program designed to reduce the wolf population backfired when snares failed to kill victims quickly, and photos of suffering wolves were seen by an outraged public.12

    Colorado is dealing with an overpopulation of elks, but programs aimed at controlling their numbers have led to “mistaken identity” killings of protected moose.13 Although more hunting permits are being issued and tens of thousands of elks are killed every year by hunters, there has been no reduction in the population.14

    Nature Takes Care of Its Own
    If left unaltered, the delicate balance of nature’s ecosystems ensures the survival of most species. Natural predators help maintain this balance by killing only the sickest and weakest individuals. Hunters, however, kill any animal they would like to hang over the fireplace—including large, healthy animals who are needed to keep the population strong.

    Even when unusual occurrences cause temporary animal-overpopulation problems, natural processes quickly stabilize the group. Starvation and disease are unfortunate, but they are nature’s way of ensuring that healthy, strong animals survive and maintain the strength of the entire herd or group. Shooting an animal because he or she might starve or become sick is arbitrary and destructive.

    Sport hunting not only jeopardizes nature’s balance, but also exacerbates other problems. For example, the transfer of captive-bred deer and elk between states for the purpose of hunting is believed to have contributed to the epidemic spread of chronic wasting disease (CWD). As a result, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) has given state wildlife agencies millions of dollars to “manage” deer and elk populations.15 The fatal, neurological illness that affects these animals has been likened to mad cow disease, and while the USDA and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention claim that CWD has no relationship to any similar diseases that affect humans or domesticated livestock, the slaughter of deer and elk is slated to continue.16,17

    Another problem with hunting involves the introduction of exotic “game” animals who, if able to escape and thrive, pose a threat to native wildlife and established ecosystems. A group of non-native wild boars escaped from a private ranch and moved into the forests of Cambria County, Pa., prompting that state to draft a bill prohibiting the importation of any exotic species.18

    Canned Hunts
    Most hunting occurs on private land, where laws that protect wildlife are often inapplicable or difficult to enforce. On private lands that are set up as for-profit hunting reserves or game ranches, hunters can pay to kill native and exotic species in “canned hunts.” These animals may be native to the area, raised elsewhere and brought in, or purchased from individuals who are trafficking unwanted or surplus animals from zoos and circuses. They are hunted and killed for the sole purpose of providing hunters with an exotic “trophy.”

    Canned hunts are becoming big business—there are an estimated 1,000 to 2,000 game preserves in the U.S.19 Ted Turner, who owns more land than any other landowner in the nation, operates 20 ranches where hunters pay thousands of dollars to kill bison, deer, African antelopes, and turkeys.20

    Animals on canned-hunting ranches are often accustomed to humans and are usually unable to escape from the enclosures, which range in size from just a few yards to thousands of acres across. Most of these ranches operate on a “no kill, no pay” policy, so it is in the owners’ best interests to ensure that clients get what they came for. Owners do this by offering guides who know the location and habits of the animals, permitting the use of dogs, and supplying “feeding stations” that lure unsuspecting animals to food while hunters lie in wait.

    Only a handful of states prohibit canned hunting,21 and there are no federal laws regulating the practice at this time, although Congress is considering an amendment to the Captive Exotic Animal Protection Act that would prohibit the transfer, transportation, or possession of exotic animals “for entertainment or the collection of a trophy.”22

    “Accidental” Victims
    Hunting “accidents” destroy property and injure or kill horses, cows, dogs, cats, hikers, and other hunters. In 2001, according to the International Hunter Education Association, there were dozens of deaths and hundreds of injuries attributed to hunting in the United States—and that only includes incidents involving humans.23 It is an ongoing problem, and one warden explained that “hunters seem unfamiliar with their firearms and do not have enough respect for the damage they can do.”24

    A Humane Alternative
    There are 20 million deer in the U.S., and because hunting has been an ineffective method to “control” populations (one Pennsylvania hunter “manages” the population by clearing his 600-acre plot of wooded land and planting corn to attract deer), some wildlife agencies are considering other management techniques.25 Several recent studies suggest that sterilization is an effective, long-term solution to overpopulation. A method called TNR (trap, neuter, and return) has been tried on deer in Ithaca, N.Y.,26 and an experimental birth-control vaccine is being used on female deer in Princeton, N.J.27 One Georgia study suggested for 1,500 white-tailed deer on Cumberland Island concluded that “herd size in closed populations can be regulated in the field relatively quickly if fertile and sterile animals can be identified … and an appropriate sterilization schedule is generated.”28

    What You Can Do
    Before you support a “wildlife” or “conservation” group, ask about its position on hunting. Groups such as the National Wildlife Federation, the National Audubon Society, the Sierra Club, the Izaak Walton League, the Wilderness Society, the World Wildlife Fund, and many others are pro-sport-hunting or, at the very least, they do not oppose it.

    To combat hunting in your area, post “no hunting” signs on your land, join or form an anti-hunting organization, protest organized hunts, and spread deer repellent or human hair (from barber shops) near hunting areas. Call 1-800-448-NPCA to report poachers in national parks to the National Parks and Conservation Association. Educate others about hunting. Encourage your legislators to enact or enforce wildlife protection laws, and insist that nonhunters be equally represented on wildlife agency staffs.

    References

    1)National Research Council, “Science and the Endangered Species Act,” Washington, D.C.: National Academy Press, 1995: 21.
    2)Grant Holloway, “Cloning to Revive Extinct Species,” CNN, 28 May 2002.
    3)“Great Auk,” Canadian Museum of Nature, 2003.
    4)United States Fish and Wildlife Service, “National Survey of Fishing, Hunting, and Wildlife—Associated Recreation,” Washington, D.C.: GPO, 2001: 5.
    5)U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 80.
    6)United States Department of the Interior, “Public Land Statistics,” Table 1-3, Mar. 2000.
    7)“Poaching Is a Serious Crime,” Illinois Department of Natural Resources, May 2003.
    8)Bob Marshall, “Is Predator Program Enough?” Times-Picayune, 2 Mar. 2003.
    9)Dave Golowenski, “Grouse Numbers Go Up If Trees Come Down,” The Columbus Dispatch, 20 Feb. 2003.
    10)“Hunters Shoot Two Relocated Bears,” Associated Press, 9 Jun. 2003.
    11)Joel Gay, “McGrath Wolf Kills Fall Short,” Anchorage Daily News, 25 Apr. 2003.
    12)Gay, “Governor Takes Heat From Hunters Expecting Aerial Wolf Control,” Anchorage Daily News, 8 Apr. 2003.
    13)Charlie Meyers, “Professor’s Prime Advice: Trim the Elk Herds, Now,” The Denver Post, 20 May 2003.
    14)Meyers.
    15)United States Department of Agriculture, “USDA Makes $4 Million Available to State Wildlife Agencies for Strengthening Chronic Wasting Disease Management,” 15 Apr. 2003.
    16)Animal and Plant Health Inspection Services, “What is Chronic Wasting Disease?” United States Department of Agriculture, Nov. 2002.
    17)CDC Media Relations, “Fatal Degenerative Neurologic Illnesses in Men Who Participated in Wild Game Feasts—Wisconsin, 2002,” Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Feb. 2003.
    18)Judy Lin, “Pennsylvania Worried About Wild Boar Escape,” Associated Press, 17 Mar. 2002.
    19)Jeffery Kluger, “Hunting Made Easy,” Time, 11 Mar. 2002.
    20)Audrey Hudson, “Greens Cut Turner a Break; Critics Question His Stewardship of Western Land,” The Washington Times, 20 Jan. 2002.
    21)National Conference of State Legislatures, “Canned Hunting,” Environment, Energy and Transportation Program, Apr. 2003.
    22)H.R. 3464 Captive Exotic Animal Protection Act, Session 107, introduced 11 Nov. 2001.
    23)“Hunter Incident Clearinghouse,” International Hunter Education Association, 2001.
    24)Tom Harelson, “1998 Deer Gun Season Report,” Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources, 8 Dec. 1998.
    25)Andrew C. Revkin, “States Seek to Restore Deer Balance,” The New York Times, 29 Dec. 2002
    26)Roger Segelken, “Surgical Sterilization Snips Away at Deer Population,” Cornell News, 19 Mar. 2003.
    27)“Princeton’s Deer Hunt Coming to a Premature End,” Associated Press, 21 Mar. 2003.
    28)James L. Boone and Richard G. Wiegert, “Modeling Deer Herd Management: Sterilization Is a Viable Option,” University of Georgia, 1994.

    this is a peta article, and it does not mention the author. i posted this because i'm confident that many of you wouldn't click the link if it is for peta.

  7. #247

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    Yes they are the two arguements you will never win and that causes more people to debate them. It just amazes me how aften people throw religious figures around! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_k_ani_32.gif[/img]
    \"May you ever walk comfortably in the shadows; neither blinded by the light nor lost in the dark.\"-i have no idea

    \"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.\"-Einstein

  8. #248

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    I can't say I agree with all the things they say in that article... but I'll say this:
    I HATE canned hunts! every single person who has ever supported a canned hunt should die a horrible horrible death (and that's not a threat :P... nor was it aimed at anyone here... should post a disclaimer every time I say something?)
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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