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Thread: Presidential debate

  1. #33
    Somewhat Unstable superimposedhope's Avatar
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    Micheal Moore.......... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif[/img]
    Quite an endearing thought: The heart of truth lays in a Hollywood low budget director. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]

    Joe
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  2. #34
    Capslock's Avatar
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    China wants the US to have bilateral talks with North Korea.

    You know, a little fact-checking goes a long way. Never believe what either campaign camp says; research it for yourself. We have entered the arena of full-contact spin.

    To some extent, the campaign is the WORST place to evaluate candidates. Every move and statement are masaged and manufactured by consultants, focus groups, and "handlers." It's good to see the candidates actually answering questions, but nobody should take anything at face value.

    Oh, and by the way, Michael Moore is the most successful documentary filmmaker in history, and an academy award winner. Them's the facts.

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  3. #35
    Somewhat Unstable superimposedhope's Avatar
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    I have not read anything about China wanting bilateral talks and have not spoken with China myself sooo.......that may be true. As for Moore Academy awards are entertainment as well. I personally feel he is preaching to the choir, the people who enjoy his "truth" are people who already felt that way and were already using his "facts" for their own debates such as this one. His documentaries are opinions with a mental picture to paperclip to your thoughts.

    Back to Bush vs. Kerry
    I am interested to see the next debate. Does anyone know who is moderating the next one?

    Joe
    \"There is nothing here of interest to any nation, as a matter of fact there is nothing here but humans!\"

  4. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Mike King @ Oct. 01 2004,10:58)] For the sake of the world environment, get rid of Bush!
    Let me first say I do not agree with Bush's immagration stance, or his educational reform. I probably would not agree with his environmental stand point if I weren't looking at a broader picture. I am in environmental affairs at a moderate sized chemical plant near Galveston, TX. I know a little about environmental matters. What the heck can Bush do about WORLD ENVIRONMENT?! The Environmental restrictions on basicaly EVERYTHING in the US is tighter than the majority of the world. And it's putting people out of JOBs and companies out of Buissness. The Disposal cost of one of the waste streams I deal with is around $20,000. Do you know what it would cost in most Asian countries? nothing! They don't seem to mind dumping the crap in the ocean. As a US chemical supplier we simply cannot compete with companies who take their corperations else where because disposal cost and employee pay is lower. Contries considered "developing" have no environmental regulations at all. Ok so lets say we do away with chemical plants all together. Kiss you're cars good buy, kiss you're clothes goodbye(unless you wear strictly cotton, or hemp) Unless you're house is made of Adobe brick and dirt floors kiss them good buy. It floors me how people can lamblast the "evil" they support for the sake of comfort.

    Do I believe the environment should be protected? ABSOLUTLY! Does it kill me so see wetland, and marine life exterminated YOU BET. Do I enjoy my lifestyle? DO YOU? People seem awfully quick to point their fingers at America, forgetting the whole time that they themself have blood on that finger. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US, who enjoy most modern comforts. If we don't use chemicals we use plants and animals (PETA just loves me) if we don't use plants and animals we go naked( fine by me I've got a natural sweater anyways) If Tamlin wants to do his part for CPs he's accused of depleting the world' supply of peat. If he doesn't use peat the quality, and quantity of his plants decline. For heavans sake pick you're poisons people.

    Mike you know this world wasn't designed to last forever, and while I know beyond a doubt it's important to protect the environment (that is my job after all) I think America is pretty well over extended in MOST areas. I do think we could be smarter in how we use land, but now we've lost JOBs and HOMES. This whole World environment is tied together and from what little I understand the US is doing MUCH more than most. I will cast my vote for Bush, and will continue to do what I can for CPs and the environment short of killing myself (literally) with kindness to the environment.
    I always suspect everything could be a trap... thats why I'm still alive
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  5. #37
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Quite frankly, I'd like a President who knows what the word "vociferous" means. Anyone catch that? Bush said our troops entered Iraq "vociferously." Sooo...our troops went in "offensively loud"?? Bush is not a bright man.

    I thought Bush's answers were awkward, fumbling and repetitive. Anyone count how many times he said "Its hard work!"? At least 5 times. He "ummm"ed and "aah"ed, stumbled and paused many times as if he were searching for what to say. Kerry on the other hand was confident; he answered smoothly without any hesitation. Kerry was taking notes every time Bush spoke. Bush stood there like a lump when Kerry was speaking until I think he noticed that Kerry was taking notes then I saw him scribble a few times. (Probably just doodling on his pad.)

    As far as flip flopping goes...I'd much rather cast my vote for someone who can see that he was in error, admit it and try to correct the mistake than to be someone who cannot admit he was wrong and continues to blunder along in this war like a bull in a china shop. Just LOOK at the news reports--everyone knows this war is turning into a disaster but Bush will NOT face that and admit. So under his Presidency, this will never be corrected. At least Kerry knows its not going well and something must be done to change it. He knows this war has seriously tarnished the US's world image.

    I thought Kerry was by far the winner of that debate. IMHO, Bush looked like bumbling idiot.
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  6. #38

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    Soooo glad to be out of the U.S. right now... I don't have to deal with the Neo-Con Zionist Supporters and Leftist Weaklings. I'll state this clearly and only once - I don't support any political school other than one that gives a rat's bum about the environment.
    Remember, this post is to talk about the Debate's outcome, not what an idiot one or the other is, or anyone else, for that matter. I appreciate that we have a wide variety of people here, so let's not push it too far as to make separate forums for different political views eh? Keep in mind that we're all here mostly because we have taken a liking to carnivorous plants, so keep it that way.
    In my honest opinion, any political and/or religious discussion should be banned from Terraforums. It leaves too many people upset.

    Now, from what I've written, you may get the impression that I'm being irresponsible about what happens in the world and all that gibberish. Well honestly I don't believe in the whole "practice your rights" jazz. I don't think we, as human beings - the only animal that isn't humble (or maybe it's just the "civilised" world eh?) - even have the intelligence or rights to live the way we do.

    My opinion, full stop.

  7. #39

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    Zak,
    >>Let me first say I do not agree with Bush's immagration stance, or his educational reform. I probably would not agree with his environmental stand point if I weren't looking at a broader picture. I am in environmental affairs at a moderate sized chemical plant near Galveston, TX. I know a little about environmental matters. What the heck can Bush do about WORLD ENVIRONMENT?!


    Answer, by first signing upto the Kyoto protocol for a start and recognize there is a problem with global warming. The USA has 4% of the world's population and makes 25% of the world's carbon dioxide emisions...

    >>The Environmental restrictions on basicaly EVERYTHING in the US is tighter than the majority of the world. And it's putting people out of JOBs and companies out of Buissness. The Disposal cost of one of the waste streams I deal with is around $20,000. Do you know what it would cost in most Asian countries? nothing! They don't seem to mind dumping the crap in the ocean. As a US chemical supplier we simply cannot compete with companies who take their corperations else where because disposal cost and employee pay is lower.


    This is exactly the same problem in Europe, but we still signed up to the Kyoto protocol.

    Contries considered "developing" have no environmental regulations at all. Ok so lets say we do away with chemical plants all together. Kiss you're cars good buy, kiss you're clothes goodbye(unless you wear strictly cotton, or hemp) Unless you're house is made of Adobe brick and dirt floors kiss them good buy. It floors me how people can lamblast the "evil" they support for the sake of comfort.

    Do I believe the environment should be protected? ABSOLUTLY! Does it kill me so see wetland, and marine life exterminated YOU BET. Do I enjoy my lifestyle? DO YOU? People seem awfully quick to point their fingers at America, forgetting the whole time that they themself have blood on that finger. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US, who enjoy most modern comforts. If we don't use chemicals we use plants and animals (PETA just loves me) if we don't use plants and animals we go naked( fine by me I've got a natural sweater anyways) If Tamlin wants to do his part for CPs he's accused of depleting the world' supply of peat. If he doesn't use peat the quality, and quantity of his plants decline. For heavans sake pick you're poisons people.


    Sorry Zak, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree. In the USA, its an everyday sight to see SUVs and Hummers and cars that do less than 20 miles to the gallon. Here in the UK we pay 5 times as much for fuel as you do and of course on average our cars do more than twice the mileage per gallon..


    >> Mike you know this world wasn't designed to last forever, and while I know beyond a doubt it's important to protect the environment (that is my job after all) I think America is pretty well over extended in MOST areas. I do think we could be smarter in how we use land, but now we've lost JOBs and HOMES. This whole World environment is tied together and from what little I understand the US is doing MUCH more than most. I will cast my vote for Bush, and will continue to do what I can for CPs and the environment short of killing myself (literally) with kindness to the environment.

    Zak,
    I think a vote for Bush would be an environmentally more damaging one. its well known he wants to promote anything with a link to oil.

    Please check out this website.

    http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/
    Best Regards

    Mike King

    NCCPG National collection holder of Sarracenia

    http://www.carnivorousplants.uk.com

  8. #40

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    Did anyone watch the debate on CSPAN? I think they were the only ones to have a split screen with BOTH candidates on continuously for the WHOLE 90 minutes. It was more fascinating to watch their reactions to what the other candidate was saying than watching their rehearsed monologues.

    Early on, Bush looked nervous and made faces, while Kerry looked attentive and made lots of notes (may have been doodling for all I know). A lady called in later and said that Kerry took one drink of water and Bush took three.

    I wish all the stations would have carried both candidates simultaneously like that. It gave us a little more insight into each's personality...
    John

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