What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Draft? no draft?

  • #41
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I belive every citizen should have to perform at least eighteen months service for his country.

I disagree. I don't think that the government should have the power to make its citizens be subject to mandatory service, no matter how good the motives are, in times of peace.

It seems most here wouldn't mind being drafted IF the war was just and seemed to be necessary. I understand this sentiment, and feel the same way myself. I can tell you this though, if I was drafted (I'm too old to be drafted, but that is subject to change in time of crisis I'm sure) I would not run, not matter how I feel.

-Homer
 
  • #42
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]did I MAKE them do that? no. and I thank them for doing that but I don't think attacking iraq was defending our freedom, nor that it was the best country to attack (even at the time)
we don't NEED a draft. everyone says so. the soldiers in iraq, the bush administration, etc. No, you can't have everything, but you can have freedom without a draft. you CAN'T have freedom with a draft. and I WILL defend my own freedom by going somewhere that doesn't make me kill people or be at risk of being seriously hurt/killed.
and I do appreciate the value of freedom. that's exactly why I don't want a draft.

It's true we don't need a draft. And you know why? It's because we do stuff like what we did in Iraq instead of waiting until Saddam Hussein actually had developed WMDs and blown us up.

Finch, if I remember correctly we have had debt since Roosevelt took us out of the Great Depression. Actually our reliance on debt is one of the reasons we are one of the richest nations.
 
  • #43
Any country that has to order its citizens on penalty of imprisionment to attend to it's defense does not deserve to stand.  That includes the USA.

WWII was a different matter than Vietnam.  Men were signing up so fast that a draft did not to be mandated.  Was there even a draft in WWII (too busy at looking at Cindy Brown in her miniskirt back in American History Class that day I guess).

Vietnam was my generations terror!  Ask yourself now what the purpose of Vietnam really was? Do you have an answer for me, or for the millions of lives wasted and ruined?

Well, some mighty big people had investments in helicopter comapnies and arms contracts back then.  Their profit from the war contracts was blood money sucked out of my generation!  The draft was a HORRIBLE crime against my generation, placing this country as close to civil was as it has been since the days of the American Civil War.  The Draft is great for big business, especially to make the rich richer.  There you have it in a nice ugly nutshell.

I was an ACTIVE opponent of the draft in the Vietnam era, and I will see my son drafted and sent to war *over my dead body* to preserve a freedom that, by demonstration, is an illusion.

The choice as to whether or not a war is just is a matter of personal conviction, and participation in it must remain always a matter of personal choice.  Taking away an individuals right to make that decision for themselves is despotic and against everything this Nation professes. This is not a decision that can be legislated.  This isn't about a NAtion: it is about the one out of the many: John Everyman, the individual with rights this country is supposed to protect.  

To those who answer this sort of call out of a sense of conscience and justice, no reward or praise is high enough.  Vetrans that defend YOUR right to refuse to participate with their life's blood are the greatest of heros -but those that stand firm in their refusal to give in to an irresponsible power with the legal right to command them to act against their conscience are also heros.

Vietnam produced many such heros, and many shattered and ruined lives as well, both abroad and right here at home at the supper table, thanks to our elected officials greed and indifference to the collective will of its citizens.  I would like to think that such a powerful history lesson would have been well learned by this Nation, but it would likely be a vain hope.

I went to my pre-induction physical when I turned 18.  I was forced to.  Once there, I was processed like cattle.  My body was marked with a magic marker to show I had had this or that test.  Big red X.  Big black check mark.  Mooo.  There were probably bodies in Nam with those marks still unfaded!  I can't tell you the hours of helpless terror I felt as I neared the age of 18.  I spent years convinced I was going to die, and absolutely powerless to prevent it.  This was not an abstract "someday I am going to die" anxiety.  It was a day to day, gut wrenching omnipresent terror.  My brother was in Nam.  Mom would lisyen every day to the daily "Death Count" on the evening news, worried sick and falling apart when no word came from Bobby.

All that suffering, and there still to this day is no reasonable explanation of why.  Now you ask if I am in favor of reinstating this enslavement and placing a similar death sentence on another generation's heads, for a war that may or may not exist and may or may not be just.  I should trust my elected officials to know what is best?  Like our current administrations inaccurate assessment of the arms potential in Iraq?

No way.
 
  • #44
I hear mention of fighting for this freedom we enjoy. It has been many, many, many years since a war was fought that actually protected the citizens of the U.S. All the other wars were fought for another countries freedom NOT mine nor should I be or anyone else labeled as "wussie" for not caring about fighting for someone elses rights. Let them fight for their own rights. I am all for removing Sadam but it is not my obligation to fight for Iraqi freedoms it is their own. This is America pal- Every man for himself, I fight everyday for my family. I have no time or energy to fight someone elses fight.
I don't remember who said it but NO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MARIJAUNA LEGALIZATION! I DON'T EVEN SMOKE THE S***! When was the last time you were arrested because you were innocent until proven guilty OR were you guilty and if you want out you must prove your innocence? That is what I mean.

Joe
 
  • #45
Over the years the united states has became the self proclaimed nanny of the world. The government sticks their noses into everything, then expects its citizens to go and fight for another countries problems. I just wish the government will "mind their business" for once.
 
  • #47
Some things need our assistance in. Like the genocide in dafur
 
  • #48
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Finch, if I remember correctly we have had debt since Roosevelt took us out of the Great Depression. Actually our reliance on debt is one of the reasons we are one of the richest nations.

no, that makes no sence, and yes, we had a surplus untill 2000. a big one
 
  • #49
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]NO IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MARIJAUNA LEGALIZATION! I DON'T EVEN SMOKE THE S***!
heh sorry
 
  • #50
Tam, U said it all! Like having my uncle on the forum!

As far as being a wussy for not dying or seeing ANYONE else die in a war I don't believe is justified I guess I'm a wussy. I can LIVE with that!

If you want to banty the "commie f@g Junkie" label on me, please realize I find all forms of government inherently corrupt. History will teach you every governing system throughout time is/has been a failure. There are no systems still surviving since antiquity, and we are begining to see the failings of Democracy after only 200-250 years. I'll admit it, I am scared for america but not of outside forces, entropy starts from within. Just look at just the incensed opinions on this simple Draft or no draft question? This is how america is these days, each side is so far apart and enraged in their ideals that I heard several of those political shows to announce "there may be violence at the polling booths on November 2nd". And additionally "members of the UN will be onhand at select US polling stations to ensure things go smoothly". Wait a minute, aren't we the ones who're supposed to be overseeing elections? Aren't we supposed to be the guarians of democracy in the civilized world?  If there comes a draft I can forsee something like a civil war breaking out and I would be more surprised if that doesn't happen than if it did.

As far as fighting a war on terror, it's impossible to combat all forms of terrorism because there will ALWAYS be someone mad enough to kill themselves and others for whatever their reasons are. So to fight against an "idea" like terrorism is impossible. You can go after terrorist organizations but fighting a concept (which can come to any individual person at any given moment) is completely impossible. Unless of course they start to implant chips in our brains so that if someone thinks of acting violently they could send a shock and "neutralize" out that person... so far that hasn't happened yet.

To close up in my normal wishy-washy fashion, I don't hold anyone personally responsible for their political or religious opinions, I am only sharing mine due to the fashion I was raised I am expecting no converts.
 
  • #51
Sounds like to me that plenty of people on here that are plenty glad and willing to reap the luxuries and freedoms that past generations have granted us. But when it comes time to sow a little bit of themselves they are going to turn tail and run. By all means if you dont feel you should have to then leave the country but dont come back. That way myself and others dont have to think that there are people who dont appreciate the fact that we risk our lives so that you can live in a country where you can be free!
 
  • #52
The simple fact is this. Some people aren't just born to be soldiers. They love and cherish freedom and security just like anyone else does, but put them in a Humvee with a large gun, you might as well just kill them right then and there and get it over with, because they don't have the mental or physical stamina. I once saw some former soldier chew out a scrawny nerd from high school because he said he'd never join the army for the reasons I've described. That is, in a word, bullpoop.

I certainly know that if I were drafted into the army, I'd never get past the first month of training.
 
  • #53
This should stir things up…..
What the “hey”, you want to live forever?
War is the one “Great Adventure” of a man's life.  If you enter it in the right frame of mind...if you are capable of doing your job, which is killing the enemy...and if you survive, you will be a far stronger person because of it.  
“It is far better to have lived one day as a lion than your whole life as a sheep”…T. Roosevelt.
Man has been going to war since God created us and we will continue as long as we still exist on this planet.  Unfortunately, the lack of recent battle has allowed those incapable of surviving a war to continue breeding and diluting the gene pool.
Those are my thoughts and fortunately I am allowed to espouse them because of the brave men with a warrior mentality that fought for my right to free speech.
 
  • #54
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If you enter it in the right frame of mind...if you are capable of doing your job, which is killing the enemy...and if you survive, you will be a far stronger person because of it.

it depends on many things. if u r outnumberd and abushed, on a side with infirior weponry and numbers, you probably wont live very long.
 
  • #55
Oh u think we should control hman breeding or something Gene pool my a**. If u go to war ur more likely to die than someone who wimps out and doges the draft. Whats next? Forcibly fixing criminals so their violent behavior doent perpetuate the gene bank? Behvior is not genetic, its influenced by the enviorment you gerw up in.

U seem to think war is good. R u implying we should do it more often? war is not good, if u like war so much move to colimbia. Meet exotic peoples and shoot them, right? A adventure, huh? For person on the right side of the muzle of your gun it is.
 
  • #56
reminds you of a certain person we fought in WWII doesn't it?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]WWII was a different matter than Vietnam. Men were signing up so fast that a draft did not to be mandated.
because that war was just. and in all just wars, a draft will NOT bee needed because there will be plenty of people willing to kill/be killed for that cause.
 
  • #57
It seems that all the arguments against the draft are really against US foreign policy. Lets not combine the two...

Peter
 
  • #58
I would certainly be able to withstand seeing "action" I'm not small, sickly or weak. I could likely "kill the enemy" with my bare hands due to my size/strength. However I have a belief that murder and violence of any sort is wrong. There is no indoctrination that could change that idea within me.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Man has been going to war since God created us
My "god" doesn't require me to kill anyone, it's great!
 
  • #59
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Oct. 29 2004,5:10)]Why care about a country that doesnt care about you?
A country that doesnt care about you?

HELLO!!!!!!!

It is OUR country that we can sit on our asses and get welfare.
It is our country that everyone WISHES they were like.
It is OUR country that we can have comforts of sitting in home and watch on big screens, surround sounds, drive cars, video games.
It is our country and some others that we are able to HAVE a hobby like growing CPs.

Because of what our country AND ITS SOLDIERS do for us, we are able to sit in our homes and complain, we are able to whine about the little things.

You think you have it bad?
go to russia
go to somolia
go to cuba

it places like that where the government DOESNT care about their people.

Come on people... THINK.... don't be brain washed by the darn liberals and tree huggers (no not CP people, i mean the EXTREME tree huggers).

If the draft came, I would gladly fill my spot.
Because my country has helped me and cared for me.
It has helped so much, I dont fear for my life, I have a right to a gun, I can protect my property, I can go for a drive on a sunday, I can take a trip to the mall, I can sit in a park and not worry about small stuff, I can have saturdays and sundays off, I can have hobbies for growing CPs, I can get online and chat with you people.
I am female, and I may not be allowed to do infantry, but I sure as hell would do all in my power to protect the infantry.

I'm a 25 year old female, and I have more balls then most the guys in this forum. Pathetic.
 
  • #60
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Oct. 31 2004,8:33)]reminds you of a certain person we fought in WWII doesn't it?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]WWII was a different matter than Vietnam.  Men were signing up so fast that a draft did not to be mandated.
because that war was just. and in all just wars, a draft will NOT bee needed because there will be plenty of people willing to kill/be killed for that cause.
so we have to wait around until the situations of terrorism and murder in Iraq and and palistine, etc... are out of control that FINALLY people would sign up?

did you not know saddam MURDERED 3.1 million of his own people?
gassing, etc... with weapons "he didnt have"..

come on
 
Back
Top