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Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Nflytrap @ Dec. 28 2004,4:24)]Just my 0.0003

    Where, then, does your sense of "evil" come from?

    I agree with Wes on his paragraph. If there was no evil, mankind would have no need for God.



    Edit: Another thing, you can't "prove" something happened-at least not to 100% certainty. Here's a little analogy to the way I look at it

    Suppose you've got a barrel of apples. The person who gave them to you tell you they are all good apples. But how do you know? How can you find out?

    Reach in and grab an apple...Sure enough...it is a nice looking apple...but you only pulled one apple.

    Grab a few more-they are all good...but you still have only a few apples.

    Suppose you pull 10 dozen good apples(and not one rotten apple)....which is a lot-but you can't be sure that they are all good. And you can't be sure that the next one you pull would be either good or rotten. The next one you pull could be a mango for all you know.













    The only way to know would be to tip the barrel and remove all the apples

    Now...in the real world(in this case science) is that possible?
    In relation to faith and creationism, it would be the same as someone saying that there is a barrel full of apples but not even showing you the barrel or letting you touch the apples.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  2. #82

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    I can't speak for Creationism(whatever the heck that is).

    But the barrel is there-the apples are there, and you are free to pick them out. But you can't use your body, your soul, or your mind to do so.
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  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Wesley @ Dec. 28 2004,11:16)]Oh by the way, there are millions of people that are praying for the people of Bosnia, and everywhere else that there are lost and injured people, especially during this time of crisis. We do care, it's just that so many of us have no way to be able to get over there and help. That's what the Salvation army, Samaritin's Purse(they're based here in Boone, cool huh?), etc are for. I'll be and have been praying for those countries, and you.
    They do help us, but the Salavation army do very little. Not near enough.
    If God was so wonderful, he would help us.
    You should go to Bosnia and see for yourself.
    I know what the business is, all these people say: We are here to help them!! But they do very little.
    All they do is keep peace, nothing else.
    If God existed, he would send us help.
    If he existed, he would restore Bosnia to the popular and beatiful country it once was.
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  4. #84

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    Hey Dino,
    I think you are very much mistaken to say the Salvation army don't do much. Most of mankind's problems like Bosnia, our country etc are pretty much self inflicted.
    How do you expect God to help you when all you can do is stick your finger up at him?
    Best Regards

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  5. #85
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
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    Gee, turn my back for a day and 7 pages go by! Hi Wesley!

    For more interesting and related debates, below are the links to the hot ones we had earlier in the year:

    http://www.**********.com/cgi-bin....+christ



    http://www.**********.com/cgi-bin....+christ

    I just skimmed through the past 7 pages and was pretty impressed with Seedjar had to say.

    Just so ya know, I was raised Jewish and had my Bar Mitzvah at age 13. By 15 I was an atheist. In college I met a bunch of Christians, belonging to a fellowship group called InterVarsity Christian Fellowship. And these folks, independently od one another debated with me and paryed for me and befriended me. Nearly 30 years later, we're still emailing!

    I have a scientific, analytical mind. I wanted proof. I didn't get anything that couldn't be refuted or rationalized away. There was, and this was more after the fact, a lot of evidence to illustrate God's existence and that He provided us with His Son, Jesus, the Messiah. Why? No matter what translation you use or editing errors, the message has always been the same and it is clear:

    God created. The Bible doesn't describe how He did it, but it is clear that God did the creating. Part of that creation was humanity. Humanity, when given a few guidelines and consequences, disobeyed. The consequences is death - eternal death. But God is compassionate. He provided a solution and the way to NOT face the consequences of our respective sin. Before Jesus arrived on the scene, some people understood that God was asking us to put their faith / confidence in Him (Abraham, David, Moses, The Prophets etc...). But God had a plan. He was taking eternal redemption to all of humanity. For this, He took His only Son, who is perfect, and sent Him to die on the cross. For those people who put their faith in Him and turned their lives around, they wouldn't have to face eternal death. For those who reject it, the consequences were same as before. Before and after Jesus the consequences and requirements were the same. Faith = eternal life. Rejection = eternal death. Forget the proofs. You won't get them You won't be satisfied.

    BTW, we all have faith / confidence that when we type our messages, it will be posted and others will read them. that is just one illustration of how we put our trust in something.


    Later, Jim

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] To take either the bible or the theory of evolution as unquestionably true makes a person a fool, im not saying that you cant believe in only one or the other
    In my mind there is proof AGAINST creationism.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]And it would be swell if we had pure, real facts, but really the closest thing that we have to a fact is that all facts depend on faith in consistency
    Why are we arguing about this? ok... no "proof" is pure, real facts but neither is the bible (which is even worse) so the fact that we have no "pure, real facts" is irrelevant. We have what we have and that's it. We can't get "pure, real facts" so why even bother?
    I don't get it.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]If he loves people so much, why did he let us suffer so much?
    whoa whoa whoa! slow down... everyone (not just you) is turning this into a science vs. religion debate. I have PLENTY to say about religion itself but last time I checked this was about science and creationism (which only exists because of religion.. but that's not the point).
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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  7. #87

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    Dino you should make another thread, you're comments are out of context.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  8. #88

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    Like I said before, Most people who don't believe evolution I've come across didn't even understand evolution or the evidence for it... let's first understand what we're talking about...
    here's a short version of the overwhelming evidence for evolution (and against creationism):
    1. Fossil record- You find smaller and older (by radiocarbon dating, etc you determine that they're older) deeper in the ground than newer and bigger (of course you find small organisms throughout the fossil record since they didn't go extinct) organisms, you find them in order (dinosaurs come first, then Archaeopteryx, then birds.
    First you find hyracotherium, then orohippus, then epihippus, then mesohippus, then dinohippus, and then equus (horses) You will never find horse bones among t-rex bones or human bones among trilobite fossils,
    etc.
    2. Biogeographical data- Clustering pattern among what darwing called "closely allied" species- similar creatures sharing roughly the same body plan- They are found around the same region (or we can account how they got there)For example, you won't find polar bears in antarctica or penguins in the arctic, and you also find that even in different places with the same weather there will be different organisms. Instead of beavers or rabbits or hares in south america, you find kapybaras (sp?) and others.... you get my drift.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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