User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 113 of 147 FirstFirst ... 1363103109110111112113114115116117123 ... LastLast
Results 897 to 904 of 1176

Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #897
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    3,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]no... that the original species is not the same species as the new species. there are tons of very similar species that are almost indistinguishable.
    Indistinguishable EXTERNALLY

    geneticly they are different enough to not be able to inbreed
    that makes no logic

  2. #898

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 17 2005,7:14)]one or two weren't good examples but how about the goatsbeard, the primrose,
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The article is on page 22 of the February, 1989 issue of Scientific American. It's called "A Breed Apart." It tells about studies conducted on a fruit fly, Rhagoletis pomonella, that is a parasite of the hawthorn tree and its fruit, which is commonly called the thorn apple. About 150 years ago, some of these flies began infesting apple trees, as well. The flies feed an breed on either apples or thorn apples, but not both. There's enough evidence to convince the scientific investigators that they're witnessing speciation in action. Note that some of the investigators set out to prove that speciation was not happening; the evidence convinced them otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Analysis of contact between two chromosomal races of house mice in northern Italy show that natural selection will produce alleles that bar interracial matings if the resulting offspring are unfit hybrids. This is an important exception to the general rule that intermixing races will not tend to become separate species because the constant sharing of genes minimizes the genetic diversity requisite for speciation.
    didnt see anything about the primrose, but teh goatsbeard it could be that only a certain pattern of gentics allows for a fertile hybrid and it took some time for the genes to fall right. Also i find any plant based argument weak due to the fact that even botonists will admit that assigning species to plants is very difficult and by no means perfect.

    the fruit flies could merely be a case of habitat selection, there is no evidence for the fact that they cant interbreed. by that same logic you should find many differnt types of humans since there are often behavioral difference in what they see as a fit mate.

    the mice, it says only if it is a unfit hybrid does the mating not work, therefore they could produce some offspring that are fretile which means they are not necesarrily a differnt species.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  3. #899

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    747
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Finch @ Jan. 17 2005,9:21)]When species colinize a island, two similar and closely related species on the same island could both be descended from seperate immigration waves of the same nominate species from the mainland. We have fossle and observed evvidence of this in the white-eye bird family. This one cartain species of that family wanders alot and often colinizes different ocenic islands(often as in a few thousand years intervles) The first wave of colonists adapts and changes enough so that it cant interbreed with the nominate species when a second wave of immigration comes. If the two resorce slightly different food sorces then the two will live side by side, changing. The process can continue.... there is evedence of up to FOUR times a wave of one species has settled in with descenednts from one of its earlier colinizations. Dna testing shows witch came from the first wave and witch came from the last, so we know it happened
    cant interbreed or wont? first off there could easily be a case of founders effect here. They could also look for different things in a potential mate, especally if they fill different niches, but that does not make them different species, if that is so there should be about 500 species of rat present in the islands that europeans went to since they seemed to spread them like the plague.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #900

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,344
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]They aint supposed to be able to do that
    maybe they evolved. LOL.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]didnt see anything about the primrose,
    maybe if you actually read the links you would ROFLMAO... I know.. you could have just skipped it or something.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]but teh goatsbeard it could be that only a certain pattern of gentics allows for a fertile hybrid and it took some time for the genes to fall right.
    huh? yeah and maybe I'm mickey mouse.(lol. I love saying that for some reason)
    but it says there that the new species of goatsbeard can't interbreed with the other species so it doesn't matter why, they're different species!
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Also i find any plant based argument weak due to the fact that even botonists will admit that assigning species to plants is very difficult and by no means perfect.
    If two populations can't interbreed and yet the populations can interbreed within themselves, they're different species. It is only very diffucult when two populations are very different and yet they can interbreed. That happens quite a lot...
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]the mice, it says only if it is a unfit hybrid does the mating not work,
    and that's why they're different species!!!
    just like donkeys and horses can mate and have mules but they're different species because the mules are sterile.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]They could also look for different things in a potential mate, especally if they fill different niches, but that does not make them different species, if that is so there should be about 500 species of rat present in the islands that europeans went to since they seemed to spread them like the plague.
    sexual isolation... part of evolution.
    and they ARE different species because they can't interbreed, so they can't have fertile offspring.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  5. #901
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    3,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That alone doesnt make them different species, but in this case there is no doubt that the species i used as a example is

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Also i find any plant based argument weak due to the fact that even botonists will admit that assigning species to plants is very difficult and by no means perfect.
    Soo, youll find it weak if i martched you outside and showed you the difference between a silver maple and a red maple, youll say that that argument is weak thet they are different species


    [/QUOTE]assigning species to plants is very difficult and by no means perfect.[QUOTE]

    Right some genuses, like oak and rowan, are extreemly difficult to classify certain species, but ti lump all plant based arguments like that because some plants are hard to tell from others is ignorant- by no means do we have trouble classifying clearly defined species. ITs like your sayimg that no plant species is clearly defined, so they dont count! You dont even know the specific similarities and differences in the examples, so to pass them off like that with a wave of the hand and a comment when you havent even SEEN them is completely silly.
    that makes no logic

  6. #902
    herenorthere's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    almost Hartford
    Posts
    3,785
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    How do you define species? Many plant genera have species that share a common range and interbreed naturally, producing viable offspring. Should all that do so be considered one species? I think so. Others see many species. Instead of carving notches in revolver handles or bedposts, taxonomists get their jollies by identifying more and more species.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #903
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    3,472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Like the oaks, those are inpossible to classify
    that makes no logic

  8. #904

    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    2,344
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]How do you define species? Many plant genera have species that share a common range and interbreed naturally, producing viable offspring.
    two populations are different species if they can't breed and have fertile offspring. This definition is something everyone I've heard about agrees on. If that's true, I don't knwo who could consider them the same species (besides ktulu lol)

    now... my own opinion... which I think I based on scientists but I ain't no expert.
    If they can (interbreed and have fertile offspring), they're different species if they came from different species and just happen to look alike (some say guineapigs aren't in the rodent family because DNA evidence suggests rodents and guineapigs came from different ancestors or something)... or if they're very different and/or come from different places (like neps are very different and/or come from different places... they can hybradize and have fertile offspring can't they? yet they're different species... or would you say that they're the same species?)
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •