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Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #905
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    Sarracenias share ranges and freely interbreed, so are Sarracenias all one species? Most of the time, I think the answer is yes.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 18 2005,12:49)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]the mice, it says only if it is a unfit hybrid does the mating not work,
    and that's why they're different species!!!
    just like donkeys and horses can mate and have mules but they're different species because the mules are sterile.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]They could also look for different things in a potential mate, especally if they fill different niches, but that does not make them different species, if that is so there should be about 500 species of rat present in the islands that europeans went to since they seemed to spread them like the plague.
    sexual isolation... part of evolution.
    and they ARE different species because they can't interbreed, so they can't have fertile offspring.
    umm did you actully read the whole post there, because the next sentance explains what i meant by the mice, so now someone else is ignoring facts and believing what is convient to them. or atleast ignoring what was said and only selecting what helps their argument.

    where does it say they CANT interbreed, just because they wont doesnt mean they cant.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  3. #907
    herenorthere's Avatar
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    To add to my previous post, speciation is trivial if two species can reproduce with each other and produce viable offspring. Speciation is awe inspiring if they can't. I go for the latter.
    Bruce in CT

    Madness is something rare in individuals but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

  4. #908

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Finch @ Jan. 18 2005,1:18)]That alone doesnt make them different species, but in this case there is no doubt that the species i used as a example is

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Also i find any plant based argument weak due to the fact that even botonists will admit that assigning species to plants is very difficult and by no means perfect.
    Soo, youll find it weak if i martched you outside and showed you the difference between a silver maple and a red maple, youll say that that argument is weak thet they are different species

    assigning species to plants is very difficult and by no means perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]

    Right some genuses, like oak and rowan, are extreemly difficult to classify certain species, but ti lump all plant based arguments like that because some plants are hard to tell from others is ignorant- by no means do we have trouble classifying clearly defined species. ITs like your sayimg that no plant species is clearly defined, so they dont count! You dont even know the specific similarities and differences in the examples, so to pass them off like that with a wave of the hand and a comment when you havent even SEEN them is completely silly.
    ok let me rephrase that, these plants that are in the same genus genrally have the ability to hybirdies, which makes them hard to classify as one species or another. I remember that alot of species of plant are reclassifed often by differnt people because there is so much controversy as to what is a species and what isnt.

    and alphawolf where did i ever say that two differnt species that cant interbred are not differnt species. now you are just making things up.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]umm did you actully read the whole post there, because the next sentance explains what i meant by the mice, so now someone else is ignoring facts and believing what is convient to them. or atleast ignoring what was said and only selecting what helps their argument.

    where does it say they CANT interbreed, just because they wont doesnt mean they cant.
    this is what it says: Analysis of contact between two chromosomal races of house mice in northern Italy show that natural selection will produce alleles that bar interracial matings if the resulting offspring are unfit hybrids. This is an important exception to the general rule that intermixing races will not tend to become separate species because the constant sharing of genes minimizes the genetic diversity requisite for speciation.

    that means that they can't interbreed because they'll have unfit hybrids (and they can't have offspring)
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]and alphawolf where did i ever say that two differnt species that cant interbred are not differnt species. now you are just making things up.
    you said that there weren't any examples of speciation. a couple of the examples say that different populations can't interbreed (mice) so they're different species. If you consider them the same species, then you think that populations that can't interbreed can be the same species.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  7. #911

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 18 2005,2:34)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]umm did you actully read the whole post there, because the next sentance explains what i meant by the mice, so now someone else is ignoring facts and believing what is convient to them. or atleast ignoring what was said and only selecting what helps their argument.

    where does it say they CANT interbreed, just because they wont doesnt mean they cant.
    this is what it says: Analysis of contact between two chromosomal races of house mice in northern Italy show that natural selection will produce alleles that bar interracial matings if the resulting offspring are unfit hybrids. This is an important exception to the general rule that intermixing races will not tend to become separate species because the constant sharing of genes minimizes the genetic diversity requisite for speciation.

    that means that they can't interbreed because they'll have unfit hybrids (and they can't have offspring)
    yeah but your bolded statement itself says if, implying that in some situtations they do produce fertile offspring.
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  8. #912

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    well... that's not what I think it says... but anyway that's not the only example so who cares about those stupid mice? (LOL)
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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