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Where does everyone stand in regards to...

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  • #421
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]I want proof and truth, and both are hard enough to come up with, no matter what the subject.
I think that you don't want accept things as proof, when they are in your face. There is alot more to evolution that what we are telling you. It isn't the most widely known theory for nothing.
 
  • #422
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I think that you don't want accept things as proof, when they are in your face.
exactly. that's basically what I was trying to say :p
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It isn't the most widely known theory for nothing.
and yet it's one of the most misunderstood theories.
Just the fact that people can say that they are "just" theories says it all.
 
  • #423
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 02 2005,1:44)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]Starman is just hateful in general, and I don't mind that either. His problem, not mine.
LOL
Whats funny?!?!
 
  • #424
Still personal, AE? Why? The bible is personal to the person that reads it. The bible is an answer to a different question, not the question being discussed, and doesn't need to be brought into here because you do not understand the work it does cover. It isn't a book of science, but a book of the spirit, which is another interesting can of worms. Want to open that can too, AE or Alpha? I don't. Nor do all my answers to you come from De Book (bible). They come from a mind trained in the bio sci field for many years, and I love to poke and jab at many theories, not just yours. So don't look at this as an attack on either of you guys, but take it as an avenue to better polish your answers, and do better research. Though I have to admit, your reasearch is great! (This is one bible thumper who reads it all.) I will tell you what I think of all of it, when I have digested it all. I have read it already, and am still thinking about and researching some of the things there. So please, don't get personal with the fella from (what was that, Alpha?--)LA LA Land? LOLOL. Besides, if you are paying attention, ScottyChaos reminds me that I have to state my reasons far more clearly than I have. in other threads of course. Now, back to EVOLUTION!!!!!!!!
 
  • #425
Show me where you think i am getting personal?

Why don't you tell us what you belive? Maybe we will get on the right track.
 
  • #426
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Starman @ Jan. 02 2005,1:57)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 02 2005,1:44)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]Starman is just hateful in general, and I don't mind that either. His problem, not mine.
LOL
Whats funny?!?!
LOL
 
  • #428
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]but take it as an avenue to better polish your answers, and do better research. Though I have to admit, your reasearch is great! (This is one bible thumper who reads it all.)
LOL... bible thumper... LOL
biggrin.gif

oh we are doing that. We're polishing our answers. almost every time I argue about evolution I come to believe it even more.
BUT you saying general statements saying we have no proof and that it's all "speculation" (or that fossils are just rocks that look like limbs... and skulls, and leaves, etc) is doing nothing positive but just making people mad.
 
  • #429
We can have productive and interesting debates here (like we were having) but I'm sorry but not knowing where you stand or having anything useful to reply to (I mean... what DO you say when people say you have no proof, that it's all "speculation" and that fossils may be just rocks that just happen to look like limbs, teeth, leaves, skulls, etc?) is not contributing to an interesting and productive debate.
 
  • #430
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Starman @ Jan. 02 2005,2:07)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 02 2005,2:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Starman @ Jan. 02 2005,1:57)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 02 2005,1:44)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:38)]Starman is just hateful in general, and I don't mind that either. His problem, not mine.
LOL
Whats funny?!?!
LOL
Just you wait untill I see you on AIM or MSN again.
NO ONE LAUGHS AT ME.
smile_k_ani_32.gif
 
  • #431
Starman sure is sensitive! And Alpha, I did not mean for it to sound like I am down on the fossil record. My intro into the field of science was because of my favorite critters on the planet***DINOSAURS!!!!!! And I love paleontology, so no, I am not down on the fossil record. And no, I do not think they were "a lie of the devil". (Wow, How convenient!) Notice how that phrase just rolled off my lips?? May be easier than dealing with the truth, eh?? Easier to some to not know at all than to research and understand. So fossils are ok with me, but how it became twisted like it did, is probably my fault. Now, move on and Evolute!! (New Word)
 
  • #432
2 Timothy 3:16All scripture is inspired by God and is F9 useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

This is to address the issue about the Bible written by humans. Yes, it WAS written by humans, many of them, over several centuries, with their respective personalities and styles. But somehow God is oechestrating things.

This is to address and earlier issue,many pages ago:

Jeremiah 29:11 For surely I know the plans I have for you, says the Lord, plans for your welfare and not for harm, to give you a future with hope.

Now this deals with the Jews after having been kicked out of their land. They were angry and confused as to why this happened and God, through his prophets, explained that it was because the people deserted him.... and... God is also comforting them within the backdrop of the discipline.
 
  • #433
Well said Jimscott. I think it is pretty safe to say that we have deserted Him, so He has no reason to help us, cause we don't want Him too. But yet, He WANTS so BADLY to help us but we won't let Him. But anyway, I'm not gonna get into the evo vs creat again just cause I'm not learned enough in BOTH subjects to be able to agrue my point well enough.
Guys, be careful with what you say... I've seen some pretty hateful things getting said. So I'm gonna use an old quote, "If you can say something nice, don't say anything at all" No before anyone thinks I was pointing fingers, it goes for EVERYONE involved. So if you get offended, don't vent here this topic is for the debate of evo vs creat.

Keeping it clean,
~Wes~

PS I don't think you guys liked the idea of taking a break!
smile_n_32.gif

Edit:pSS Lets go for 500 posts, 10,000 views, and NOT getting this topic locked(as in STAY CALM)
smile_n_32.gif
smile_m_32.gif
LOL
 
  • #434
Very well said, all.
Bugweed, you want proof. Can you give an example of what you would consider definitive proof on this subject. Not even an example, what are you looking for in the proof that you have not seen? Some can mearly be given an example pulled out of someone else's rear and be convinced. not you. Actually, that is inpressive from my point of veiw because some people these days will beleive anything that has a scrap of evidence (im not talking about the bible, imm thinking of certain conspericy theorys or scientific hoaxes, like the cold fusion debocle)

Ok, i'll ask you flatly, what woud we have to show you (besides seeing it with your own eyes) to convince you of it, and what kind of proof could convince you?

i asked someone this question after years of tryig to convince them of global warming. They said they did not know. i asked if they would know it when they saw it, and did they have any idea of what it would be? they said no. Thats when i know it was impossible to convince them, because even they didnt know what would change their mind.
 
  • #435
I have a hard time with those kinds of people. If they are gonna debate something, they have to know what will convince them, otherwise there is no point debating with them, cause there is thus no way to win the debate.
 
  • #436
Well, Finch, there is just not yet enough evidence to convince me, but I do not do a thumbs down on evolution, I just wonder. Either way, whether God did it, or evolution did it, I don't care. I just want all the facts to come out, and like the Alpha Wolf insinuates, because the Bible says so just isn't good enough. Not even for an olde Christian like myself. It is the Honor of Kings to search out a matter (bible), and since we are the kings of our world (for what its worth), search your hearts out, and keep an open mind. I think that is the only part of this I have a hard time with. I am open to both sides, as I know both sides, but the evolution guys are creamin' the crap out of the "Creationists", and the creationists have not stepped up to the plate with any reasonable explanation. At the same time, both sides won't give an inch in the name of right or wrong, and do not have open minds, IMO. You have to know both sides to formulate a reasonable hypothesis, and reject those things that do not fit. I guess for me, Finch, it just doesn't quite fit yet.
 
  • #438
Bugweed, the reason(or at least for me) is that they either don't have a rescource for the creationist "stuff" or they don't fully understand creationism or evolution. That's why I'm in this discussion, I'm learing(well trying) to learn about evolution. I then will need to spend time learning about the view of creation. I am afterall only a 9th grader, and unlike a lot of you guys haven't taken all the courses that deal with this stuff.
 
  • #439
AE, What will convince me is to wade (and I do mean wade) through all this fantastic information on evolution, get everything I can on Creationism, and get my butt to work until my OWN mind convinces me of the arguments made by yourself, and Alpha, are true. Or if, in my mind, I still have a few points to iron out, and am still not quite there, I will remain unconvinced, but researching. Thank you, Alpha, and AE for soo much information, and all the arguments that will give me months or years of researching pleasure. YAY!!!! Intelligence! And Wesley, just because you are in the 9th grade doesn't mean you can't research it yourself. With all given freely by Alpha and AE to this LONG thread informationwise, I can see a College Masters Degree in your future! LOL!!! I am of the mind that it is not a good thing to totally discount Creationism, and see where one may compliment the other, scientifically, and maybe it is a combination of the two. WOW! So much to delve into. I am as happy as a pig in slop!! No, AE or Alpha, I am not totally convinced, but you definitely have my attention. Thanks!!
 
  • #440
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]or they don't fully understand creationism or evolution
could anyone just explain creationism then? I think evolution was explained wasn't it?
What I'm talking about when I say creationism is The belief that God Put humans here already as Homo sapiens and all other organisms as the species they are right now... and that none of the modern organisms are decendant from common ancestors.
I know there are other types of creationism but I'm talking about that type of creationism that DOESN'T believe in evolution.
as for explaining evolution, Zak (right?) posted an excellent link.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/misconceps/IAorigintheory.shtml
What would take to convince me that creationism is right? proof against evolution and for creationism.
If not, You would first have to prove to me there is a god, then prove to me which god that god is, and that the stuff that supports creationism are not metaphors.
 
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