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Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #313

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    Here is one of the many pages of already fulfilled biblical prophecies I found doing a simple google search. There are many many more, some of which have already been fulfilled, some of which are still to come. However, not one prophecy has been false. Storytelling? I think not. This is a completely different level from the future-tellers who with varying accuracy use Satan's power to predict the future.

    Also, The bible contains family liniages from Adam and Eve to Jesus, whom we know existed. I do not know of anybody who would lie about their lineage. Especially back then, when your family mattered a lot more.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]But there is nothing substancial that has evolved from these things.

    oh of course not... unless you count algae, plants, fungi, and animals.
    You just dropped out the rest of what I had been saying. If anything evolved from these organisms that have both the properties of plants and of animals, they must have dropped some of these characteristics (I guess that makes them more hardy, eh?)

    Peter
    the cellist

  2. #314

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]they must have dropped some of these characteristics (I guess that makes them more hardy, eh?)
    well sure... a single cell moving can't make a whole plant move.... nor can a single cell being able to EAT (not photosynthesize) doesn't make the whole plant be able to eat.
    but You're not understanding evolution. There aren't steps through which all organisms go. It's not a ladder. It's a tree.
    ... wait... ok I guess ... yep... it's my fault.
    Sorry. I didn't mean to say that... Nothing substancial evolved from those things because right now they just evolved.

    umm... about the prophecies... is it just me or is the bible forshadowing what is about to come IN THE BIBLE?[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]?
    Does it say anything about the tsunami or something that occured AFTER the bible was written?
    Or I'm I just blind and can't find them?
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
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    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  3. #315

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    hmm... I was reading the talkorigins page I gave you earlier and it says
    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Furthermore, we know empirically that different characters evolve at different rates (e.g. some genes have higher background mutation rates than others). Thus, if common descent is true, we should observe nested hierarchies over a broad range of time at various biological levels.
    so besides the environment, some genes mutate faster than others so I guess the organism evolves faster or slower depending on the genes. (it's sort of tough to read all that but I'm determined to read ALL of it :P)
    boy. There sure is a LOT more that I thought there was.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  4. #316
    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Mike King @ Dec. 31 2004,8:33)]but the reality is that God did 'create out of nothing' (the big bang theory verifies that)
    I feel the need to nitpick on this one. I don't know of any scientist that thinks the big bang created anything. What was contained in the singularity existed "beforehand" (time is a component of space-time, so applying concepts of time to the universe when space didn't really even exist yet doesn't really work). In fact there was a theory that the universe would bang and crunch in cycles, but I think that one has been ruled out at this point (I actually really liked that theory, but I can't believe things because I want them to be true). New theories on the beginnings of this universe are also emerging that are somewhat different from the old ideas on the Big Bang. These are coming around thanks to new ideas on string theory, and I really don't think the origins of the universe can have a really solid theory applied to them until we come up with a unified field theory first (and string theory is looking promising).

    The church seems to be ok with the Big Bang. What happens if it turns out something more complex is going on as suggested in the link above?

    I like the Einstein quote, but I like it for different reasons I think. What people are starting to figure out about quantum mechanics (which is so bizarre that they would use the term "figure out" pretty loosely) is that consciousness seems to play an important part in the shaping of reality, which is something many eastern religions have believed for a very very long time (which in my opinion is where Jesus acquired many of his ideas). If this is true, then it could possibly come to explain a great deal... the healing from an illness you mentioned, miracles, creative manifestation, "supernatural" events, etc. Faith healing when tested has been shown to often have an influence... but of course like the tsunami (something I posted a while ago) people are eager to jump to conclusions as to why. It's just speculation (we're quickly entering belief territory rather than knowledge territory), but imagine what a trained mind could do in such a reality.

    I can't remember the quote now... "This, you too, can do"... or something similar. Somewhere in the bible I believe Jesus made it clear that he wanted people to stand beside him as peers rather than grovel at his feet. What if people actually allowed themselves to do what he asked?

    Things will unfold at their pace as usual. I'm looking forward to seeing what quantum mechanics will teach us.

  5. #317
    God must have an interesting sense of humor Wesley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]If god wants me to believe in him/her/it/them (whoever/whatever god is/are) then he/she/it/they 'll show me what I want.
    It might not(probably not) be a matter of Him showing you what you want to see, it is more of a problem of Him showing you what you DON'T want to see. That's how it is in my life. He's didn't create us so that we could tell Him what we want, He created us for a relationship. Many of you think Christianity is like evolution, in the fact that it is about the Bible and facts and proof. It is not that, it is a relationship with Him, our Creator.

    But on another note, this topic is just see-sawing back and forth. We know where we stand, so lets call a truce for one month, and then we can start it back up if we want. I had a great convo with AE, and even though we don't agree we shared our beliefs and have accepted each other's belief(We even learned a little about each other's belief). Let's just try for month, but if you don't like the idea, that's fine too, I just won't participate in this topic anymore.

    Later and keep it real,
    ~Wes~
    ~Wes~

    My plants are going green to save the environment

    My Growlist

  6. #318

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    ok but you know what we should do?
    those of you who don't believe in evolution should read about the proof of evolution. ( http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html this site or others)
    and those who believe in evolution and not creationism should read (give us a site)
    then after a couple of weeks (not a full month!!! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_k_ani_32.gif[/img] I can't handle it) we can debate scientifically.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] He's didn't create us so that we could tell Him what we want, He created us for a relationship
    First I got to know he EXISTS (I'm not having any relationship with something I don't know exists!!!) and which religion is right.
    He "created" me and gave me my personality and my logic (or put me in an environment that did that... or gave me the genes...etc) So he knows what I NEED to believe in him and to choose the right religion. I have obviously not gotten it.
    The bible itself isn't good enough to convince me, people telling me the bible is true isn't good enough, I need proof.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
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    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  7. #319
    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    I don't know how I'm coming off here... words get interpreted various ways... but I've been very calm and haven't intended to attack anyone in this discussion. Just ideas that I don't think hold up. In the end it's all in the interest of growth.

  8. #320
    endparenthesis's Avatar
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    And yes it would be nice to be pointed to a solid creationist site. I've seen sites written by pseudoscientists (creationist tries to play the science game but is out of his/her league), and I've seen sites written by pseudotheologians (creationist tries to play the philosophy game but is out of his/her league). There must be people out there somewhere who believe this and can argue it exceptionally. Maybe a book is where we should be pointed rather than a website?

    I'm an amateur on both counts, so if I can find the holes in something it really won't stand up to expert scrutiny.

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