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Where does everyone stand in regards to...
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Alpha, Is it because you are convinced it's true that it is a fact? I find division even among evolutionists. Some still say theory, then the ones who claim it is a fact. Seems even among the "brains" that push this stuff, they cannot agree. And it continues to go in circles.....................
It is both. Gravity is both a theory and a fact. The FACT that the sun is the center of the solar system and that we revolve around it is a theory. Atoms? Theory. Electricity? theory.
evolution is both a theory AND a fact.
and yes, I am convinced it is true and it is a fact, but I became convinced because of evidence FOR it, and NO evidence AGAINST it, and NO evidence for ANYTHING else. If there is, no one I've talked to and TRIED to get arguments from has given me any.
and yes, we ARE going in circles because your question has been adressed many times before! (mainly by me and my national geographic thing)
so are we not just ignoring facts now but whole posts? oh great.
evolution is both a theory AND a fact.
and yes, I am convinced it is true and it is a fact, but I became convinced because of evidence FOR it, and NO evidence AGAINST it, and NO evidence for ANYTHING else. If there is, no one I've talked to and TRIED to get arguments from has given me any.
and yes, we ARE going in circles because your question has been adressed many times before! (mainly by me and my national geographic thing)
so are we not just ignoring facts now but whole posts? oh great.
Science in general has accepted evolution as a fact. Scientists only consider it a theory on account of the people that DON'T belive it (religions, etc) so its a little easier for people to swallow (my opinion). Something can be a theory and a fact at the same time also.[b said:
Note: Luis (TheAlphaWolf) thinks its incredibly important to note that a theory can be a fact at the same time. So strongly he feels about this, that he is harrasing me on aim to edit it. There. Happy?
I'm going to lay off Mary Magdalene since she's very controversial. I'll stay away from that route. All i'll say is that she wrote a gospel that was never included in the bible that implies her and jesus where married. Other gospels not pubilshed in the bible also imply that they where married. (I remember reading that her and Jesus would kiss sometimes, and other disciples where jelous). Actually about 80 gospels where written but not all where published.[b said:
There is alot of other things, but i'll stop there.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
I've read all that. According to the folks that study the apochrypal books, this one was dated in the 4th century AD, a little late for her to write anything. Also, it it has been surmised that there were lots of extra-Biblical books written with the names of famous Biblical characters as Gospel of... It was designed to lend credibility to them, not that the person actually wrote them. Now you'll say that this is circular reasoning, but these books had material that was contradictory to the 66 books of the accepted canon and were thus rejected. Also, they were deemed to lack the authority as well as contained errors. Basically, they were saying that they were poorly written and lacking in divine inspiration. Can all this be proved? No. But this is what was decided by the Rabbis at the Council of Jammnia, for the Old Testament and the Christians for the New Testament.
I have read some of the apochryphal books on my own to see what they were all about. My own perception was that some of them seemed to fill in or explain what was in the canonical books. For instance, the Book of Esther NEVER mentions God, though it was implied throughout. Well, there was a book attributed to Mordechai, her Uncle, that is replete with God this and God that. Some of these books relate nice stories, like Bel and the dragon or Susanna - but the Jewish rabbis said they were lacking in divine inspiration or had errant theology.
I have read some of the apochryphal books on my own to see what they were all about. My own perception was that some of them seemed to fill in or explain what was in the canonical books. For instance, the Book of Esther NEVER mentions God, though it was implied throughout. Well, there was a book attributed to Mordechai, her Uncle, that is replete with God this and God that. Some of these books relate nice stories, like Bel and the dragon or Susanna - but the Jewish rabbis said they were lacking in divine inspiration or had errant theology.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
I quite disagree! If evolution isn't proven, then it absolutely has to have some elements of faith to accept it.[b said:
So you found a couple of famous people who gave up on their faith. Their loss. It appears that you have your mind made up. Nothing will convince you. Sad.
He also wrote the book called, "More evidence..." where he studied literary criticism (form, historical. radical, etc...).
Finch
Whats it to ya?
[b said:
agreed, but youv done a pretty good job.
[b said:
top- down thinking, in a zology and biology atleast, is far better than the bottom- up thinking prevailemt in earlier years.
About evolution, i have seen it for myself, with my own eyes.
The house sparrow, almost all of us see on every day, hopping under cars, stealing our dropped pizza crust, steaing my birdseed
angryThe local state college has a collection of house sparrows from around the country for its evolution class.
Housparrows are introduced from europe, awhile ago, and have since spread from newyork across the continent from a very small base stock.
Already distinct subpolulations are beginning to appeir. In the american southwest deserts, the housesparrows are paler than the norm (dark bodies absorb heat, so its to keep cool) In the Midwest, housesparrows are bigger than the norm (to conserve heat in the windy winter ??) and the northernmost house sparrow are better insulated than the norm because they have more fethers to keep them warm. All have originated from the same homozygous stock of 100 birds, and yet some populations have adaptions that would help them survive their extreme enviorments. The dead bird stock at the college is usefull for comparison. All are obviously the same species, but these changes wernt in the original colonizing stock. So that means they hey have adapted to their enviorment. The housesparrows in my backyard have trouble squezing into nest holes that their counterparts eldewhere would slip trough with reletive ease. (the hole in question was already about the limit of what houesparrows could squeze trough, so tecnecly they have MORE diffuculty than their counterpatts, but the size difference between the two isnt signifigent at all, its just that thereas a size difference at all)
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Finch
Whats it to ya?
So you find *one* person who gained their faith. His loss. It appears that you have your mind made up. Nothing will convince you. Sad.[b said:
nah... they're just metaphors.[b said:
It is proven. That's why it's a fact, just like gravity, the sun being in the center of the solar system, electricity, atoms, etc.[b said:
Speciation has been observed, so evolution has been proven.
Finch
Whats it to ya?
Finch, i believe you are misusing the word evolution, the sparrows you mentioned are merely adapting to their enviroment, not evolving. They are all still house sparrows right? and if ones from the southwest and ones from the northern areas were together they would interbreed, meaning that they are just show the variability in the speices. Im not saying that they will not evolve into new speices but right now they have just adapted and also the differences could be due to founders effect with the orginal stock that moved into the differnt areas.
alphawolf, where is this proof of speciation? i would like to see the evidence for it, because personally i have a feeling there is something missing in it
alphawolf, where is this proof of speciation? i would like to see the evidence for it, because personally i have a feeling there is something missing in it
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