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Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]the only proof we could ask of Creationism is here; the planet Earth exists. There's no reset button that we can press, wait ten seconds, and then say, "Hey, there's God arranging flowers in Eden," or, "Hey, it's just a bunch of plasma and undifferentiated particles."
    we're talking about the branch of creationism involving evoluton. You're talking about the beginning of the solaar system which has nothing to do with evolution. Even if we WERE talking about that, there's more proof that the solar system was formed by nebulae because we can actually see nebulae in space and we can see different steps on how stars form (we can't see planets because by the time planets form the star is already too bright for our instruments to see the planets)
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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  2. #34
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Dec. 27 2004,7:35)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (seedjar @ Dec. 27 2004,10:24)]I'm a scientist at heart and I'd love to have some proof to sweep religion out of the mix, but the fact is that religion is outside science.
    Exactly, which is why both definitions cannot be accepted

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]There's nothing in the definition of religion or faith which neccessitates truth or proof or anything of the sort.
    So i'm just going to "belive" something... with no proof? If that was a valid way of thinking, we'd all be dead by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]To believe in science, one must have faith in consistency, and to believe in religion, one must have faith in God or higher powers or whatever it is that particular religion entails.
    You don't have to have "faith" in consistency. Actually you don't have to have "faith" in anything. Science isn't about faith (thats a new one..) it's about proof - evidence, logical, factual evidence. "consistency" isn't random.
    Please, read some philosophy. I don't want to explain why causality is not to be trusted, because the Greeks and Kant and Hume and Descartes and a whole lot of other dead guys have done it already. The only thing that leads us to believe that causality is consistent is that it's been consistent before, and thus it's a totally circular argument. There's no proof that what we observe really happens, and thusly there's no solid proof of anything, because it all depends on our observations being correct (which, by the Heisenberg principle, never are, even if they are close sometimes.) Anything that you might call proof can be called into question by asking for proof of it's accuracy. If you intend to prove that gravity exists by showing that masses attract one another, then you must go on to prove that your test actually happened. To prove the test happened, you would probably want an eyewitness account of it happening. You would then need proof of that account. The proofs go on ad nauseum, and there is no end to them.
    ~Joe

    PS - Please, there's gotta be a philosophy major around here to back me up. I want to eat dinner!
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  3. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]let the earth put forth living souls according their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the eart accoring to its kind.
    That's saying that domestic animals and others were put here already as domestic animals (etc).
    completely ignoring the fact that bacteria/protists are not animals and are not even mentioned in the bible,(since you could say that people back then didn't know about them... -aldough god should have-) everything evolved from bacteria-like organisms that would not be considered animals... let alone domestic animals. If you make a sculpture of a cow and then something else makes it a fish, you don't say you made a fish.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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  4. #36
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    seedjar is correct in saying that there's no proof that what we observe really happens, and thusly there's no solid proof of anything.
    {now i have to dig out my mythology book with the section on philosophy}

    ...
    that makes no logic

  5. #37

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    Evolution is a theory, not a fact. Why things are like they are---who knows?? All we really have is a lot of people putting forth ideas, trying to call them fact, and it is all supposition. I don't know, you don't know, but it is interesting to punt around the field a few times. Otherwise, I have plants to love, and lots to learn about what I am doing now.
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  6. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]thusly there's no solid proof of anything.
    ok?.... I really don't know what to say about that... Then should we just give up and do nothing? the fact that there's no solid proof of anything isn't relevant when debating about evolution/creationism because ... well... how can it be?
    You can't prove you're not just a dream... or that you're a brain in a jar being fed stimuli.
    You take what you have (proof) and you base your beliefs on it. With the proof we have, evolution happens and creationism has no scientific proof.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  7. #39
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Dec. 27 2004,7:49)]If you make a sculpture of a cow and then something else makes it a fish, you don't say you made a fish.
    I definitely agree, but the thing about the way that God is supposed to work is that God is responsible for everything, so if evolution exists and God exists, it's not like God passing the torch off to Darwin - God is still doing the evolution, making things happen. As for God making everything as it is today; certainly this "today" we speak of is the "today" of the Bible's original author. So if the animals (lets be flexible and assume that the passages about plants and animals were including protists and other life-forms that people didn't know about back then) were created by God then, by whatever means, that would satisfy the basic requirements for Creationism. Evolution could still happen - after all, at the time of the writing, when somebody said that God created things as they are "today," things were evolving, changing, etc., or at least that's our best bet. That's evolution, right there next door to Creationism. This is all why I prefaced my initial comment with the qualifier that a literal, overzealous interpretation of either school of thought makes the other difficult to accept.
    ~Joe

    PS - As for the thing about Earth being evidence for Creationism, what I'm trying to get at is that Creationism just says that things were put here as they are - by virtue of its structure alone, Creationism is correct, because it doesn't ask that anything be different from what it already was. Of course, if you take it to mean that nothing ever changes, you run into problems. If nothing ever changed, as Creationism might say, then things wouldn't die, or get old, or perform any other life processes. But I think that the authors of the Bible accepted those kinds of changes, and I think that they would also accept the life process of evolution.
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
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  8. #40

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    you wanna know somthing funny..the bible does not mention dinosaurs, so religious people say they are tricks of the devil and they never exsisted...

    just my 2 cents...

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