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Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #441

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    My definition of creationism is that everything was basically created. Every species as they are now have always been. Every plant, animal, bacteria - everything living was made by god.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  2. #442
    God must have an interesting sense of humor Wesley's Avatar
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    Hmm, thanks Bugweed... but please don't metion college. I plan on going but my dad already drives me nuts wanting me to be the first in ALL my family to get my PhD. LOL As for finding info on them, I have all the info for evo... thanks I think instead of wading it will be more of a drowning thing LOL. I'll see if I can find a site on biblical prophecies, and a few other things. Agh I can't get the rest of this post done cause my whole family wants the internet it seems LOL
    ~Wes~

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  3. #443

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]As for finding info on them, I have all the info for evo... thanks I think instead of wading it will be more of a drowning thing LOL
    hey, even I'M drowning! LOL
    but you don't have to drown... Just tell us why you don't believe and at least I'll find out (If I don't already know) what evolutionists say.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
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  4. #444

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 02 2005,1:23)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ Jan. 02 2005,1:08)]Still no proof. Vestigal limbs? How would you know? How would I know?
    Maybe you could figure that one out on your own. Let me start you off. If "god" created us then why would he give us things that we don't need and don't use? You saying "we might need them" or "how do you know we don't need them" or (this ones great) "how would you KNOW we don't need them" aren't options, and won't answer the question.
    I think those are good questions....how DO we know something is vestigal?
    1 Nxventrata

    D. muscipula & D. muscipula 'Red Dragon'(barely)

    Sarracenia leucophylla(seedling)

    S. purpurea and Drosera filiformis filiformis/ intermedia seeds waiting to sprout.

    Drosera capensis

  5. #445

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    thanks bugweed [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  6. #446

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I think those are good questions....how DO we know something is vestigal?
    First of all, vestigial structures don't have to be USELESS. Sure, ostriches do use their wings in their mating ritual, but they're still vestigial.
    Sure, the appendix does make some leukocytes (I think...) but all other animals (or most anyway) use them for digesting (darn it... I practically know nothing of the appendix... to digest plants? or raw meat?) certain things we don't have to digest. Certain organisms have huge appendixes because they actually use them.
    But it's pretty obvious that certain things are useless. Muscles are for contracting and moving things and nothing else (ok fine, for heating too), so why do we have muscles to wiggle our ears? or to give us goosebumps? they're totally useless heck, you have to LEARN to wiggle your ears :P I had to anyway. Many people don't know how to wiggle their ears.
    Others like whale pelvises... well, what are pelvises for? They're where you attach your lower limbs so you can move them around. Whales don't have lower limbs.
    What are eyes for? seeing. blind cave salamanders and fish don't need to see so they have greatly reduced eyes that can't see.
    dandelions? flowers and pollen are for reproducing. You don't need flowers or pollen for survival (at least they don't because their flowers and pollen are useless!).
    Some vestigial structures are even bad! For example wisdom teeth cause more bad than good.
    Spotted hyena's pseudomale reproductive organ?
    this says it all-
    http://www.freewebs.com/oolon/SMOGGM.htm#hyaena
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Female spotted hyenas bear, suckle, and care for their young like any female mammal. But although their genitals are clearly female in function, they are male in form. The labia are fused into what looks like a scrotum, complete with two pads of fatty tissue that resemble testes. In addition, the clitoris is elongated to the point that it is nearly the size of a male's male reproductive organ and is likewise fully erectile.
    Astonishingly, females mate and give birth through the long, narrow canal running down the center of this "pseudomale reproductive organ." During mating it retracts much like a shirt sleeve being pushed up, and during birth it stretches so much that it looks like a water balloon. "From a human perspective, the process can be thought of as giving birth through an unusually large male reproductive organ," says Frank.
    [...]
    Whatever the cause, female masculinization is apparently a very successful strategy for the spotted hyena, which is the most abundant large predator in its range. But this success comes at a cost that is tremendously high for the spotted hyena--and presumably prohibitively high for other species. Notably, giving birth is difficult and dangerous, especially for first-time mothers. The fact that the pseudomale reproductive organ has such a long, narrow birth canal is enough to make it a poor organ for delivering a baby. But there is the added complication that the end of the pseudomale reproductive organ cannot stretch enough to accommodate passage of the baby: In a first-time mother, the baby tears its way out. "It's the only time I've ever heard hyenas cry out in pain," notes Frank.
    Even worse, the umbilical cords are so short that many first-born babies die. At only six-inches long, the umbilical cord is far too short to traverse the foot-long canal down the pseudomale reproductive organ, which means that either the placenta detaches or the cord breaks before the baby is born. (For comparison, in women the birth canal is only a few inches long and the umbilical cord is a generous foot and a half long.) The longer a hyena's labor, the more likely her baby is to suffocate and be stillborn--and the more likely the mother is to die. In captivity, first-time mothers labor as long as 48 hours and nearly three-quarters of first-born cubs die. Without veterinary help, many of these mothers probably would have died along with their babies; in the wild, many females die at three to four years, the age when hyenas typically first give birth.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  7. #447

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    oh, I forgot...
    some vestigial structures aren't even present in all of the population.
    (in humans... I got this from a magazine. I'm not sure which one... new scientist?)
    Vomeronasal organ- tiny pit on each side of the septum lined with nonfunctioning
    chemoreceptors- for detecting pheromones
    Neck rib- reptiles have them... less than 1% of the population has them
    We also have a third eyelid in the corner of our eyes
    sublavius muscle- under the shoulder- it would be used if humans walked on all fours- some people have none, others have one, and others have two.
    plantaris muscle- muscle for grasping with your feet (of course it's useless now) 9% of the population does not have it
    male uterus- it's near the prostate gland in males
    vas deferens-in females they're called epoophoron tubes- they're a cluster of dead-end bubules near ovaries.
    palmaris muscle- from elbow to wrist- missing in 11% of the population- would be good for hanging/climbing
    13 rib- 8 percent of population have it... chimps and gorillas have them
    pyramidalis- tiny, pouchlike muscle that attaches to the pubic bone... reminant of pouched mammals- 20% of the pop. lack this muscle.
    Body hair- we don't need all of it- heck, we even shave! males have more... why? do males with their bigger muscles need to hold more heat in? no... females should be hairier! LOL... ew.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

  8. #448

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    what is that? you want more? (lol... don't you just love my rambling?)
    many insects have little tiny wing-like things (Ie flies) behind their normal wings... or wing buds (I believe fleas or lice have them?...), tails and gill SLITS (NOT gills) in embryonic humans, limb buds in whale and snake embryos, gerbil (or is it hamsters?) tails, malaria chloroplasts (heck, they live INSIDE organisms where they never get to use it... why the heck do they have chloroplasts anyway?),
    ok... I'm tired.
    have... to... stop... rambling!!!
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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