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  1. #681

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Rubra @ Jan. 10 2005,4:42)]Plants and insects both happen to have their own methods of survival. Plants have the amazing ability to produce seed, which in all cases I can think of can survive at least 44 days. Insects lay eggs, which normally hatch after anything from days to weeks, and can lay dormant for long periods of time if kept cold (ie. in cold water). Other insects could survive as nymphs underground. I personally am not sure quite how they all survived, but it would make an interesting study!

    As for separate races, this site I found explains it much better than I can:

    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-ai...skincolor.html

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]If the magnificent flood story about a flood that covered the whole entire earth and these people had to build a giant enormous ark and put two of every *land* animals there for forty days and forty nights can be explained as easily as that... well then what about the other parts of the bible?
    Go ahead and read it. Most of it its pretty self-explanatory.

    Peter

    PS: Can you show me where the Bible states that the earth is round?
    What about seeds surviving 40 days underwater?
    neevr heard of that before, the seeds would rot away and die.
    unless it was a water plant, of course.

    if the nymphs burried themselbves underground, the massive water pressure would kill them if the water was that deep(up tot he highest peek)

    I doubt most insect eggs would do that.
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  2. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]PS: Can you show me where the Bible states that the earth is round?
    There seem to be some passages that indicate that the world is flat, and some passages that indicate that the world is round. They all seem pretty wide open to interpretation (no surprise).

    Flat:
    http://www.infidels.org/library/maga.../004round.html
    http://www.infidels.org/library/maga...1/1flat90.html
    http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/fe-scidi.htm
    http://www.truechristian.com/earthflat.html (I can't begin to list all the funny comments in this one, but I especially love "please be open minded before you read this, instead of checking out your brains at the entrance door"... is this a parody site?)

    Round:
    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html
    http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/flatearth.html
    http://www.ichthys.com/mail-round%20earth.htm
    http://answering-islam.org.uk/Respon.../flatearth.htm

    Most of the flat earth passages sound like they're just using poetic language more than anything else if you ask me. But then I suppose there may have been biblical writers on either side.

    I changed my mind... I'm starting to think the whole evolution/creation discussion can be abandoned at this point. It's gone in so many circles I don't see much hope of finding a fresh argument.

  3. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]No insects came aboard, just land animals.
    grrrr!!!! insects ARE land animals!!! 97% of all animals are invertebrates. 1 in every 4 species of animal is a beetle too.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Well, a fair bit of the world's oxygen also comes from microscopic plant life in the oceans, and likely would've sustained the planet for a fair bit with just Noah and his crew. Of course, a flood that huge would've destroyed every land plant, thusly leaving the animals SOL when returning to their home and leaving the world a barren wasteland.
    there's no such thing as microscopic plant life in oceans. There's algae and cyanobacteria which are NOT plants. photosynthetic organisms that aren't plants (kelp, diatoms, cyanobacteria, dinoflagellates, etc) actually input more O2 than plants.
    but of course if there really was to be a flood they would ALL die out because they would suffer from ... darn it.... what do you call it when a cell swells up and explodes when they are in a hypotonic solution?
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] which in all cases I can think of can survive at least 44 days. Insects lay eggs, which normally hatch after anything from days to weeks, and can lay dormant for long periods of time if kept cold (ie. in cold water). Other insects could survive as nymphs underground. I personally am not sure quite how they all survived, but it would make an interesting study!
    again, impossible. If there was a worldwide flood (as I believe you believe) the pressure would be so strong that all the living lights out of any seed/egg/nymph would be crushed out of them. besides.... the salt/lack of salt in the water would have killed everything else too.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Check it out... and we can all stop wasting PFT server space...
    does anyone else think this is a waste? I've learned a lot and I don't think this is a waste at all.
    It is not the same talking to people and going one point at a time than reading all that.
    assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west.
    how can you stand on "east" and "west"? do they just fly around? then they're not standing...
    how about north and south? it's more definite where they are but is it the magnetic poles? the poles according to the axis?
    or is it all of it just another of the many metaphors presented as truth?
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
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  4. #684
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    Ok, I realize that I'm a little late to jump in here, and I know I've been gone a while, but boy howdy did this topic spring to life, I checked the night it started and it was already some 60 pages! Well, let's kick things off:

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] again, impossible. If there was a worldwide flood (as I believe you believe) the pressure would be so strong that all the living lights out of any seed/egg/nymph would be crushed out of them. besides.... the salt/lack of salt in the water would have killed everything else too.
    Whoever said that the eggs sit at the bottom?? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_m_32.gif[/img] Ok, so I'm just thinking here, but... Let's see. Let's say it starts raining, it's pouring, and the old man is a few leagues under the sea, ok, so, rain is freshwater, oceans have a higher salinity than freshwater. So, let's see, we need to observe a few things, for starters densities! Ok, think of an estuary, where freshwater and saltwater come together. As has been observed the salty water goes dooown, and the freshwater stays up top- viola! A word comes to mind- theromohaline! Ok, so, to sum up, if it starts raining and the whole world is covered with water, the top layer will be freshwater if it rains THAT MUCH, given in smaller amounts that the freshwater would ultimatly mix with the water of higher salt content. This happens in real life- gyres, and eddies, right? So, tada. We have freshwater life, ok, and you know what? If the water would have a higher salinity than that of freshwater, then there's another niche out there that would survive, besides, freshwater is the hardest aquatic environment to survive in out there. The point is that no matter how hard you try, it is awwwwwful hard to kill all the life on a planet. Trust me on this one *shifty eyes* [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif[/img].

    Moving along though, to answer the original question- Evolution? Come over to my house, I'll show ya. We can SEE it happen today, we can MAKE it happen, that is to say, we cannot excell a species to what it will look like thousands of years from now, but look at Morgan's experiments with Drosophilla -fruitflies-. Or really any of the Mendelian principalities where we can make experiments. In reference to origins, we've obviously gotten in to the creationism v. evolution debate, on that note, all I really have to say at the moment is, evolution exists, we can see it, hey, either is possible. Me myself, I believe in somewhat of a mix between the two. Frankly though, I realize that some of my beliefs contradict the bible, but let's face it, within recorded history we can examine how the bible has been altered on purpose, and then there's always room for error in translation, and we're talking a lot of room here. Anyhoo, *lowers hand* let the flamewar continue [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif[/img] Just wanted to give my monday-afternoon-homework-procrastination bit.
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  5. #685

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]again, impossible. If there was a worldwide flood (as I believe you believe) the pressure would be so strong that all the living lights out of any seed/egg/nymph would be crushed out of them. besides.... the salt/lack of salt in the water would have killed everything else too
    Yeah, I guess that if eggs were tied to bricks, they would stay under water, where they would be crushed.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]1 in every 4 species of animal is a beetle too.
    And beetles spend ages as larvae, either bored into chunks of wood (which, it has been established, float!) or underground. Then the spend another long span of time in their pupal form, during which they could be flooded and never know.

    Personally, I agree, we could abandon this debate, as most of us have probably exhausted our knowlege of real evidence.

    In any case, I'd say we ditch the flood topic, as it really isn't central to the debate, and while it could easily have happened, neither side has much to base their arguments on.

    Peter
    the cellist

  6. #686

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (schloaty @ Jan. 10 2005,5:03)]Check it out... and we can all stop wasting PFT server space...
    I don't think it's wasting space. Everything here has been argued before because this isn't new information. Debating it is the point.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  7. #687

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    Such a drastic rise in freshwater levels would dilute the salt, stopping the deep ocean curents that regulate world temperate. In other words, it would of started a new ice age. (I can see it now: "Well god added salt to the water also"
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  8. #688

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Whoever said that the eggs sit at the bottom??
    many (most in fact) insects glue their eggs to things or burry them.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] As has been observed by the inhabitants is this: The salty water goes dooown, and the freshwater is up top- viola! A word comes to mind- theromohaline! Ok, so, to sum up, if it starts raining and the whole world is covered with water, the top layer will be freshwater if it rains THAT MUCH, given in smaller amounts that the freshwater would ultimatly mix with the water of higher salt content.
    first of all I don't think it rained. people say that the water came from underground (which would mix the water) or mists or other... stuff..
    but ok fine, the fresh water is up and the salt water is down. No big deal since it's already like that in the oceans (have you ever heard of the great ocean conveyor?) so let's see... now we have salt water organisms beneath billions of tons of water which would crush them, all photosynthetic life is gone, sea mammals like otters and whales and dolphins starve to death, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]We have freshwater life, ok, and you know what? If the water would have a higher salinity that freshwater, then there's another niche out there that would survive, besides, freshwater is the hardest aquatic environment to survive in out there
    and then that niche is gone just like that killing even more life. (gee... we sure have one efficient, fair, reasonable, and good god now don't we?)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The real point is that no matter how hard you try, it is awwwwwful hard to kill all the life on a planet.
    oh I know that. Life in this planet has endured oxygen poisoning (lol), ice ages, meteors, supervolcanoes, etc... but we're not talking about killing all life... 99 % of the organisms alive today would not have survived a world wide flood that covered the earth for forty days and nights.
    Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish-Euripides
    wikipedia rocks! (except for species info)(CPers-add your vast knowledge of CPs to wikipedia&#33
    A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it
    Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything

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