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  1. #713

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    I don't doubt that a whole genus of nepenthes could have evolved from just a species or two, but how did those come into existence?
    the cellist

  2. #714

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Rubra @ Jan. 11 2005,6:15)]I don't doubt that a whole genus of nepenthes could have evolved from just a species or two, but how did those come into existence?
    You can ask that question about everything with the same answer - a common ancestor. Everything comes from a common ancestor. Ancestors can be trace to back to each other. So nepenthes came from something and that something came from something etc. Basic evolution. Ever seen a cladogram?
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 11 2005,11:12)]You can't fully belive in religion and evolution... maybe parts of both if twisted and blended to the persons liking.. but not both in their entireties.
    Why not, i am yet to see anything that excludes all religion in evolution or vice versa, some religions say that you cant believe in evolution, and some religions believe things that conflict with evolution but not all religions and evolution clash
    "We're terrible animals. I think that the Earth's immune system is trying to get rid of us, as well it should." - Kurt Vonnegut

  4. #716

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    Heres a simple cladogram:

    That's just a piece of a big cladogram scientists have constructed linking everyone to everything down to one common ancestor. Its very simple to read. Everywhere there is a branching point is where a new identifyable feature is therein divided. The closer the organism is on the cladogram the more similar it is to the other.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  5. #717

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 11 2005,6:51)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 11 2005,11:12)]You can't fully belive in religion and evolution... maybe parts of both if twisted and blended to the persons liking.. but not both in their entireties.
    Why not, i am yet to see anything that excludes all religion in evolution or vice versa, some religions say that you cant believe in evolution, and some religions believe things that conflict with evolution but not all religions and evolution clash
    You cannot fully belive both. Some parts of evolution contradict creationism and visa versa.
    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

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    They say if you play a Microsoft CD backwards, you hear satanic messages. Thats nothing, cause if you play it forwards, it installs Windows.

  7. #719

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I also don't see the point in using science to back up claims about the flood logistics when you have to simultaneously ignore a massive amount of science indicating that it never happened in the first place.
    not to mention it is IMPOSSIBLE.
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]"The Bible says x, y, x, but we don't accept that, so here is some incomplete evidence from which one might conclude the possibility of our having evolved." Is the basic sum up of the evolutionist.
    since we're stereotyping here, (many christians believe in evolution... just because most of the talking here was done by people who don't believe the bible doesn't mean people believe both evolution and the bible... I don't see how... but that's irrelevant)
    here's your typical creationist (TYPICAL... at least I don't stereotype EVERYONE)
    "I know nothing of evolution but OF COURSE it is impossible. oh, all that proof? that's no proof. it's speculation. what about this? oh... and this? oh... and this? oh... ok I give up, I can't find anything wrong with evolution so I'll just talk about the bible. I'd rather believe no proof at all than mountains of proof"
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Evolution is no more likely than creation
    HA!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Carnivorous plants are a living proof of that. For example, why would a whole genus of nepenthes evolve, with simple ones like mirabilis at the same time as the more complex hamata, and yet there is no plant that has experimental formations sticking out of its petioles?
    I really don't understand your question...
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  8. #720
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]I don't doubt that a whole genus of nepenthes could have evolved from just a species or two, but how did those come into existence?
    Ok, let us take a quick step back and look at it as a whole. Carnivorous plants, we know them, we love them, why on Earth do they exist? Well, let's see, what makes them unique? I think that we all know. Carnivorous plants evolved so that they could fill a niche, in this case especially bogs. Over a period of time, natural selection gave pre-carnivorous plants an edge, that is, they could survive in bogs where they could grow fairly uncontested because other plants couldn't grow there, from there they've continued to expand in to the different forms we know today. The carnivory part is a trade off for being able to live in nitrogen-poor areas. Really, it's just a matter of life trying to fill every little crack. Here's why it happens, because when two organisms compete for a limited resource two things can happen. A) The superior will locally kill off the competition or B) one of them will evolve to rely on an alternative. Think, wouldn't it make your life a heck of a lot easier if instead of having to go out and buy food you could just go eat some dirt or soemthing?? Ok, so that last part was a bit silly, I just have this thing for dirt [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif[/img]
    Ok, if you want an even broader example, we have The Cambrian Explosion. I believe that it's been mentioned before, but oh well, still fits. My reference is to a wikipedia article, you can feel free to google it yourself some more.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]and yet there is no plant that has experimental formations sticking out of its petioles?
    There's not Oh silly me. ...-Ok, look at all your hybrids: experiments. Furthermore, evolution doesn't usually happen that fast, things that are majorly different than their parents often die, but every now and again we get a sucessful mutation or adaptation that gives that organism an edge. If you want I can give you bunches of examples, feel free to ask, I could go on about biology and evolution all day. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_n_32.gif[/img] Though, to be less extreme, we right here on the forums see things like that, a double-headed VFT, plantlets growing out of flowers, just a matter of these things giving a reproductive edge. Sorry if I've made anything unclear, just gimme a poke if there's anything [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_m_32.gif[/img]
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