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Where does everyone stand in regards to...

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  • #941
im sorry, then what did you mean by your commet? this whole thread you have been attacking religion, so i guess i assumed, as i shouldnt have that you were yet again attacking religion.
 
  • #942
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,10:47)]the what did you mean by your commet? this whole thread you have been attacking religion, so i guess i assumed, as i shouldnt have that you were yet again attacking religion.
You could call it attacking or not agreeing with. I guess attacking is more appropriate in your position.

Now that its clear that i'm not insulting anyone or calling them ignorant, what do you think about my question?
 
  • #943
you want a physical manifestation of god, is that what you want?

god is differnt to all people.

what about all the unexplainable phenomena in this world maybe that is god.
 
  • #944
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,10:58)]god is differnt to all people.
I know that. I'm asking everyone as individuals to say what god is to them.
 
  • #945
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,10:58)]what about all the unexplainable phenomena in this world maybe that is god.
I remember it saying once in the bible that god does not produce miracles anymore. Sounds contradicting.
 
  • #946
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 19 2005,5:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,10:58)]what about all the unexplainable phenomena in this world maybe that is god.
I remember it saying once in the bible that god does not produce miracles anymore. Sounds contradicting.
so you only want to deal with a christan god then
 
  • #947
and by the way what does this have to do with evoultion?
 
  • #948
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,11:04)]and by the way what does this have to do with evoultion?
Creationism is based on religion (whatever that is for you). Creationism is against evolution. Bear with me while i try to understand it.
 
  • #949
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,11:03)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 19 2005,5:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,10:58)]what about all the unexplainable phenomena in this world maybe that is god.
I remember it saying once in the bible that god does not produce miracles anymore. Sounds contradicting.
so you only want to deal with a christan god then
really good point. the bible isn't the only thing to look at. there are other writings also. Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt the bible the only one who talks about how the earth was created? (genesis)
 
  • #950
On the topic of genetics and evolution, there is a new idea floating around in molecular biology, DNA Barcoding. That idea is exactly what it sounds, a small portable device with an internal database of genes that could be used to identify wild animals on the spot down to the species. Theres a billion dollars that may be up for it, what do you guys think?

If you search on thenewyorktimes.com there should be an article on it. I'll post the tests they've done up for you guys to see
 
  • #951
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 19 2005,5:07)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,11:03)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 19 2005,5:01)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 18 2005,10:58)]what about all the unexplainable phenomena in this world maybe that is god.
I remember it saying once in the bible that god does not produce miracles anymore. Sounds contradicting.
so you only want to deal with a christan god then
really good point. the bible isn't the only thing to look at. there are other writings also. Correct me if i'm wrong but isnt the bible the only one who talks about how the earth was created? (genesis)
most religions have some form of a creation myth, however not all of them are so descritptive or limiting as the story in genesis
 
  • #953
I disagree about the ignorant part of A E. I think we can understand the others arguments, well I can. Thats not saying that the other's right though.
Yes diehard Darwinist here.
 
  • #954
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]you want a physical manifestation of god, is that what you want?
no, I want proof. any kind of proof. First that there IS a god, and then which god(s) it/they are.
Lack of knowledge is not proof of anything. Just because a books gives answers doesn't mean the answers are right nor that I should agree with them.
I am perfectly fine with the idea of not knowing everything. I accept the fact that I will very possibly never know 1/8ths of what I would like to know, but that doesn't mean I can or will make up something and believe it or believe something that goes against what I believe (eg. that all people are sinners, noah's ark, adam and eve, genisis, etc) and before you tell me that I shouldn't take the "word of god" literally, I say that if I am to believe something that claims it was inspired by god, god should at least have made it say what he wants to say. I'm sure the writers of the bible WANTED to get the book right didn't they? Why didn't god just give them a little extra memory? Why would they write about noah's ark and adam and eve and genisis as historical fact and not metaphors
confused.gif

like I said before... it's not just the lack of proof, the fact that the bible (BTW I only mention christianity and the bible because that's the religion I know the most about and so far all of the creationists I've ever talked to have been christians... coincidence? or top-down thinking?) says things that I just can't bring myself to accept.

just my opinion...
and here's my question... why do you believe? HOW can you believe? that is something that has always puzzled me.
 
  • #955
isn't proof a rational and simple thing to ask from a god that CREATED me so I NEED proof?
 
  • #956
Legend has it genesis wasn't written or sent from above. It was later added as an explanation for creation by the church. Why can all the other books in the bible be traced and not Genesis?

confused.gif
 
  • #957
i dont care what you believe, i dont care how you come to believe in something, the one thing i do ask is that you respect the choices people make when decideing what to believe. im sorry to say it but many of you die hard evolutionist have come off as looking down on people who believe in any religion. in essance they believe in something, just as you do, and really in my opinion they are basing it on pretty much the same evidence as the rest of you, the written words of others. How much of the fossil record have you held, examined, dated, classified and determined to be real? how many cases of speciation have you witnessed? you base your conclusions on the words of other people just as they do. and im not asking you to believe what they do, just repect their choice, ask your questions in a respectful manner and if what they give your for proof is not enough for you ask for more, but dont treat people like they are less intelligent than you simple because they believe. We need to embrace the differences in people because thats what makes us such an interesting species.

and there my rant on respecting peoples religion is done
 
  • #958
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]and really in my opinion they are basing it on pretty much the same evidence as the rest of you, the written words of others.
how? like I've said before, you can go out and buy chicken wings. You can experience goosebumps. You can go to museums and look at the fossil records. If you have the money you can also date the fossils and do EVERYTHING there is to do to prove to yourself that what they are saying is true. You can look at bats and see how they have thumbs and all four fingers in each wing. You can look at your birds' legs (like I have) and see that they have scales. you can go to museums and look at human fetuses and see the tails and gill slits. You can see how so many species are so alike and it's pretty obvious they had the same ancestors. You can even see changes over time, Just like I saw with my snails and ostrocods (no conclusive proof, I admit, but it's something) You don't have to rely on the written word. That is why this is science. You can actually go do and see everything that supports evolution. There is nothing you can do except believe in a book in order to be a creationist or believe in intelligent design.
Evolution requires no faith (except that what you're looking at is not being fed to your brain in the form of electrical impulses).
You saying that evolution requires faith is like saying that we require faith to believe in the tsunami. so we shouldn't give to the tsunami relief because we haven't experienced it? we all know about special effects, the tsunami could be one. heck, why should we believe the world is round? or that man has been to the moon? or that we came out of our moms? That our parents were babies once? why should we believe ANYTHING? You are asking for impossible proof. That kind of proof does not exist in the universe.

You're not comparing apples and oranges, you're comparing fish and saturn.
 
  • #959
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]the one thing i do ask is that you respect the choices people make when decideing what to believe

I don't think most people decide for themselves, their parents do. I really don't think a newborn decides to be baptised or born into a family that follows certain beliefs. This applies to religious and non-religious people.

Why can't we accept [and RESPECT] the fact that people hold their own beliefs and celebrate diversity eh? Is there still a well-founded purpose for this discussion? 'Cause I sure don't perceive the possibility of one. It looks more like a thread that wants to reach 1,000 replies.
 
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