We are more sharing ideas now then battleing.[b said:Quote[/b] (nepenthes gracilis @ Jan. 23 2005,12:13)]Does anyone realize this is a neverending battle?
We are more sharing ideas now then battleing.[b said:Quote[/b] (nepenthes gracilis @ Jan. 23 2005,12:13)]Does anyone realize this is a neverending battle?
oh so if it can't be stopped it's not evolution disease IS natural selection. It's organisms causing other organisms to die (if it's not genetic... and there are plenty of genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis and others that greately reduce your chances of having offspring). now you are re-difining evolution![b said:Quote[/b] ]First off, natural selection is environmental, not disease. There's always been disease and you can't consider that evolution because there always will be.
oh sure... let's not consider what drives evolution as natural selection... well then of course there's no evolution because you're ignoring what does cause things to evolve.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Let's not consider diseases natural selection since the genes are just killing the random people that have it
[b said:Quote[/b] ]Diseases are more "random" than organized, not just killing the weaker but the sometimes stronger.
they're not wild cards. It's been proven that you're likely to get many diseases because of family history (which means it's genetic)[b said:Quote[/b] ]Think of diseases as a wild card. The unlucky one draws it and has the disease or dies on the spot if its a rare one.
exactly... and what is evolution? changing genes.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Genetic Disorders.
we are in nature. Just because we destroy nature doesn't mean we're not in it. Things can still affect us. We're not a closed system.[b said:Quote[/b] ]I think that there can be subtle changes to humans over time depending on things like disease and natural disasters maybe. Girls still do hold some power in evolution when it comes to sexual selection, but anyone can procreate if they want to. Over time we might see small changes of our current states. Maybe a difference in our sizes or small changes to other structures, but nothing dramatic, and there's no more natural selection since we aren't in nature anymore
no... that just means that you need more/less melanin depending on latitude.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Some people use race to categorize humans evolutionary-wise and to see who the most advanced humans are. Do you think that race is a good way to categorize humans evolutionary wise?
thinner hair? how is having thinner hair good because it snows?[b said:Quote[/b] ]Europeans have lighter skin tones with lighter, thinner hair, because it snows
Read carefully i said genetic diseases. If you are talking about sickness, viruses and bacteria thats another thing. My post was talking about genetic disorders.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,2:23)]oh so if it can't be stopped it's not evolution disease IS natural selection. It's organisms causing other organisms to die (if it's not genetic... and there are plenty of genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis and others that greately reduce your chances of having offspring). now you are re-difining evolution![b said:Quote[/b] ]First off, natural selection is environmental, not disease. There's always been disease and you can't consider that evolution because there always will be.
Genetic Diseases drive evolution? Who's redefining? Stay on topic with your argument and don't twist my words. I am talking specifically about genetic diseases. Of course genes play a big part of natural selection (who said it doesn't).[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,2:23)]oh sure... let's not consider what drives evolution as natural selection... well then of course there's no evolution because you're ignoring what does cause things to evolve.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Let's not consider diseases natural selection since the genes are just killing the random people that have it
and the people that have it aren't random. They inherit the things (genetic diseases or the likely that they'll have certain cancers or stuff)
Get one thing straight, Bacterial and Viral infections are not the same as genetic disorders. Bacterial and Viral infections (of course) are evolution, genetic disorders don't test survival fitness because anyone can have a genetic disorder and function perfectly in nature, then be killed by something that's genetic.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,2:47)]and like I said, genetic disorders are natural selection too. And also like I said, diseases caused by pathogens can be more likely if you have certain genes so there's also a genetic part of diseases like that.
so anyway my point was that there's still natural selection.
genetic diseases can drive evolution.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Genetic Diseases drive evolution? Who's redefining?
I am too.[b said:Quote[/b] ] I am talking specifically about genetic diseases
You don't want to count genetic diseases (caused by genes) as natural selection.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Of course genes play a big part of natural selection (who said it doesn't).
well duh. Genetic disorders are inherited.[b said:Quote[/b] ]I'm talking about genetic disorders, and you are talking about inheritance?
what are you saying about them? are you implying they are not a form of natural selection because there is alot of evidence that they are. tay-sachs and TB is a good example of a disease that has a genetic adaptation to it also malaria and sickle cell, both non-genetic diseases that have a genetic adaptation that gives the carrier an adavantage.[b said:Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 23 2005,8:43)]If you are talking about sickness, viruses and bacteria thats another thing. My post was talking about genetic disorders.
who said they were?[b said:Quote[/b] ]Get one thing straight, Bacterial and Viral infections are not the same as genetic disorders
no they can't. That's why they're GENETIC DISORDERS. Because you CAN'T function perfectly in nature.[b said:Quote[/b] ] don't test survival fitness because anyone can have a genetic disorder and function perfectly in nature, then be killed by something that's genetic.
you don't choose to evolve. Of course you can't choose or fight off genetic disorders, that's why you die and don't have offspring.[b said:Quote[/b] ]You can't choose or fight off genetic disorders, that why they are wild cards. You can however, fight off bacterial and viral infection. The best in doing so, then survives.
True but it also hinders them.[b said:Quote[/b] (ktulu @ Jan. 23 2005,2:51)]what are you saying about them? are you implying they are not a form of natural selection because there is alot of evidence that they are. tay-sachs and TB is a good example of a disease that has a genetic adaptation to it also malaria and sickle cell, both non-genetic diseases that have a genetic adaptation that gives the carrier an adavantage.[b said:Quote[/b] (Amateur_Expert @ Jan. 23 2005,8:43)]If you are talking about sickness, viruses and bacteria thats another thing. My post was talking about genetic disorders.
how do you know it has different impacts on the population?[b said:Quote[/b] ]and the type of monogomy is important because it has differnt impacts on the population
we ARE ffected by natural selection, and we ARE affected by nature because genetic disorders are nature.[b said:Quote[/b] ]We are talking about how humans have stopped evolving because they are not affected by natural selection anymore. You are saying that diseases are part of natural selection, but because nature doesn't affect us anymore it doesn't matter if we have genetic disorders or not.
ok, and the frequency of diseases is controlled by the environment. If you're talking about pathogens, they're part of the environment. If you're talking about genetic disorders, those genetic disorders can't survive in this environment so their frequency is determined by the environment.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Natural selection by definition is the controlling of the frequency of alleles by the environment. The FREQUENCY is CONTROLLED by the ENVIRONMENT.
well there you go! you're making my point for me![b said:Quote[/b] ]The ENVIRONMENT. Get that straight. The ENVIRONMENT is the driving force in natural selection. The Environment including things in the environment like bacteria and fungi. Bacteria and Fungi are natural selection. They are in the environment, the do affect you. Diseases cause by the environment are natural selection.
and our house is an environment. it has bacteria and air and you HAVE to be able to do certain things in order to survive. If you can't breathe because your lungs get clogged up, then you're more likely to die before having offspring. it doesn't matter if it's a jungle or pluto or a house, it's still an environment and if there are things outside of your control they are nature.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Again natural selection is the environment.
ENVIRONMENT.
you don't take out the environment.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Humans are not in their natural environment anymore they are in a house. This in itself takes out natural selelction because you take out the environment.
it does. If you were in an environment that allowed for those genetic disorders to survive (ie. malaria infested place and sicke cell anemia) they wouldn't be genetic disorders. we still live in an environment, and as long as there are incurable diseases out there that don't allow you to have the same number of offspring survive as would someone else, you will have natural selection.[b said:Quote[/b] ]If you have a genetic disorder, you dying has nothing to do with natural selection. NATURE isn't SELECTING your genes
Genetic disorders don't come from the environment. We aren't in a natural environment anymore.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:37)]we ARE ffected by natural selection, and we ARE affected by nature because genetic disorders are nature.[b said:Quote[/b] ]We are talking about how humans have stopped evolving because they are not affected by natural selection anymore. You are saying that diseases are part of natural selection, but because nature doesn't affect us anymore it doesn't matter if we have genetic disorders or not.