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Where does everyone stand in regards to...
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Some people use race to categorize humans evolutionary-wise and to see who the most advanced humans are. Do you think that race is a good way to categorize humans evolutionary wise?
I think variation withing humans depending on where they are on the earth backs up evolution. Europeans have lighter skin tones with lighter, thinner hair, because it snows and there are lower levels of sunlight. In africa there are people with darker skin and darker thicker hair, because of the high heat and sun levels.
I think variation withing humans depending on where they are on the earth backs up evolution. Europeans have lighter skin tones with lighter, thinner hair, because it snows and there are lower levels of sunlight. In africa there are people with darker skin and darker thicker hair, because of the high heat and sun levels.
oh so if it can't be stopped it's not evolution[b said:
disease IS natural selection. It's organisms causing other organisms to die (if it's not genetic... and there are plenty of genetic diseases like cystic fibrosis and others that greately reduce your chances of having offspring). now you are re-difining evolution!oh sure... let's not consider what drives evolution as natural selection... well then of course there's no evolution because you're ignoring what does cause things to evolve.[b said:
and the people that have it aren't random. They inherit the things (genetic diseases or the likely that they'll have certain cancers or stuff)
[b said:
they're not wild cards. It's been proven that you're likely to get many diseases because of family history (which means it's genetic)[b said:
exactly... and what is evolution? changing genes.[b said:
we are in nature. Just because we destroy nature doesn't mean we're not in it. Things can still affect us. We're not a closed system.[b said:
and subtle changes are evolution!
no... that just means that you need more/less melanin depending on latitude.[b said:
thinner hair? how is having thinner hair good because it snows?[b said:
Read carefully i said genetic diseases. If you are talking about sickness, viruses and bacteria thats another thing. My post was talking about genetic disorders.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,2:23)]oh so if it can't be stopped it's not evolution[b said:
Genetic Diseases drive evolution? Who's redefining? Stay on topic with your argument and don't twist my words. I am talking specifically about genetic diseases. Of course genes play a big part of natural selection (who said it doesn't).[b said:
I'm talking about genetic disorders, and you are talking about inheritance?
Get one thing straight, Bacterial and Viral infections are not the same as genetic disorders. Bacterial and Viral infections (of course) are evolution, genetic disorders don't test survival fitness because anyone can have a genetic disorder and function perfectly in nature, then be killed by something that's genetic.[b said:
Nothing you do can save you from a genetic disorder because you have it from birth, it's a genetic wildcard.
what are you saying about them? are you implying they are not a form of natural selection because there is alot of evidence that they are. tay-sachs and TB is a good example of a disease that has a genetic adaptation to it also malaria and sickle cell, both non-genetic diseases that have a genetic adaptation that gives the carrier an adavantage.[b said:
Diseases aren't a big player in natural selection even if they you do consider them to be natural selection. The genes are always throw back into the genepool.
Diseases don't test survival, they are either accepted or not. You either die or not, but they are always in the genepool. There is no way to get rid of them or progress past them.
Diseases don't test survival, they are either accepted or not. You either die or not, but they are always in the genepool. There is no way to get rid of them or progress past them.
see... I figured out what I wanted to say yesterday.
Ktulu.... You're trying to re-difine evolution in order to find flaws in it.
It doesn't matter in what environment (lab) you evolve. It doesn't matter if you're in the sun, the oort cloud, or anywhere in between. You're still evolving. It doesn't matter if you came from pluto and adapted to france (and if the new species can't survive in pluto anymore), it's still speciation because they're different species.
and it doesn't matter if it takes 80 trillion years for a species to get a mm bigger or if it takes them overnight to grow wings and fly to the moon (LOL...), it's still evolution.
Ktulu.... You're trying to re-difine evolution in order to find flaws in it.
It doesn't matter in what environment (lab) you evolve. It doesn't matter if you're in the sun, the oort cloud, or anywhere in between. You're still evolving. It doesn't matter if you came from pluto and adapted to france (and if the new species can't survive in pluto anymore), it's still speciation because they're different species.
and it doesn't matter if it takes 80 trillion years for a species to get a mm bigger or if it takes them overnight to grow wings and fly to the moon (LOL...), it's still evolution.
how do you know it has different impacts on the population?[b said:
We are talking about how humans have stopped evolving because they are not affected by natural selection anymore. You are saying that diseases are part of natural selection, but because nature doesn't affect us anymore it doesn't matter if we have genetic disorders or not.
Natural selection by definition is the controlling of the frequency of alleles by the environment. The FREQUENCY is CONTROLLED by the ENVIRONMENT.
Keep that in mind.
Humans don't live in a natural environment anymore, you live in a house. You aren't affected by the environment anymore, which is what natural selection is. Natural selection is your environment controlling the frequency of your alleles.
The ENVIRONMENT. Get that straight. The ENVIRONMENT is the driving force in natural selection. The Environment including things in the environment like bacteria and fungi. Bacteria and Fungi are natural selection. They are in the environment, the do affect you. Diseases cause by the environment are natural selection.
Again natural selection is the environment.
ENVIRONMENT.
Now when we get to the topic of genetic disorders. Remember the environment is controlling the frequency of alleles.
Humans are not in their natural environment anymore they are in a house. This in itself takes out natural selelction because you take out the environment.
Without the environment selecting your genes you have no natural selection. If you have a genetic disorder, you dying has nothing to do with natural selection. NATURE isn't SELECTING your genes. You are just plainly dying without environmental interferance. There is nothing about the environment that has to do with it, and there is not way that it's testing your fitness to survive because no matter how fit you are to survive (even if you were in the environment) you would die.
Genetic Disorders cannot be considered natural selection in humans anymore since we aren't in nature anymore.
*If anyone is going to respond to this i want them to first establish that we are still affected by the environment before they talk about genetic disorders. Without the environment there is no natural selection because that's what natural selection is, i'll reiterate, the environment controlling frequency of alleles.
Natural selection by definition is the controlling of the frequency of alleles by the environment. The FREQUENCY is CONTROLLED by the ENVIRONMENT.
Keep that in mind.
Humans don't live in a natural environment anymore, you live in a house. You aren't affected by the environment anymore, which is what natural selection is. Natural selection is your environment controlling the frequency of your alleles.
The ENVIRONMENT. Get that straight. The ENVIRONMENT is the driving force in natural selection. The Environment including things in the environment like bacteria and fungi. Bacteria and Fungi are natural selection. They are in the environment, the do affect you. Diseases cause by the environment are natural selection.
Again natural selection is the environment.
ENVIRONMENT.
Now when we get to the topic of genetic disorders. Remember the environment is controlling the frequency of alleles.
Humans are not in their natural environment anymore they are in a house. This in itself takes out natural selelction because you take out the environment.
Without the environment selecting your genes you have no natural selection. If you have a genetic disorder, you dying has nothing to do with natural selection. NATURE isn't SELECTING your genes. You are just plainly dying without environmental interferance. There is nothing about the environment that has to do with it, and there is not way that it's testing your fitness to survive because no matter how fit you are to survive (even if you were in the environment) you would die.
Genetic Disorders cannot be considered natural selection in humans anymore since we aren't in nature anymore.
*If anyone is going to respond to this i want them to first establish that we are still affected by the environment before they talk about genetic disorders. Without the environment there is no natural selection because that's what natural selection is, i'll reiterate, the environment controlling frequency of alleles.
we ARE ffected by natural selection, and we ARE affected by nature because genetic disorders are nature.[b said:
ok, and the frequency of diseases is controlled by the environment. If you're talking about pathogens, they're part of the environment. If you're talking about genetic disorders, those genetic disorders can't survive in this environment so their frequency is determined by the environment.[b said:
well there you go! you're making my point for me