TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
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Where does everyone stand in regards to...
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I said bacteria and fungi are natural and environmental and they DO affect us. What? are you arguing for me? lol[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:37)]and our house is an environment. it has bacteria and air and you HAVE to be able to do certain things in order to survive. If you can't breathe because your lungs get clogged up, then you're more likely to die before having offspring. it doesn't matter if it's a jungle or pluto or a house, it's still an environment and if there are things outside of your control they are nature.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Again natural selection is the environment.
ENVIRONMENT.
Don't be so literal, and i feel like a babysitter having to clarify things for you. I mean that you aren't in it anymore.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:37)]you don't take out the environment.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Humans are not in their natural environment anymore they are in a house. This in itself takes out natural selelction because you take out the environment.
it doesn't matter what kind of selection it is. Evolution doesn't only happen because of "natural" selection. the environment is choosing if the genes you have are good or bad. If your lungs clog up because of mucus buildup in your lungs and you die, that's only in this environment. If say in another environment the air was "bad", you'd be able to survive because in that environment the air reduces the mucus but not all the way to kill you (kind of like your stomach... the mucus is there as a protection, not as a burden)[b said:Quote[/b] ]Genetic disorders don't come from the environment. We aren't in a natural environment anymore.
We are in an (ok i'll bite) "environment" that allows these things to survive. They get passed on from generation to generation.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:37)]it does. If you were in an environment that allowed for those genetic disorders to survive (ie. malaria infested place and sicke cell anemia) they wouldn't be genetic disorders. we still live in an environment, and as long as there are incurable diseases out there that don't allow you to have the same number of offspring survive as would someone else, you will have natural selection.[b said:Quote[/b] ]If you have a genetic disorder, you dying has nothing to do with natural selection. NATURE isn't SELECTING your genes
We have hospitals also which make genetic disorders livable (another point). You can live with them and manage to procreate.
Us being able to live with them and treat them, prevents them from being an evolutionary factor.
Air is about the only thing that affects us because its something we all need that comes from the environment. Nothing else.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:44)]it doesn't matter what kind of selection it is. Evolution doesn't only happen because of "natural" selection. the environment is choosing if the genes you have are good or bad. If your lungs clog up because of mucus buildup in your lungs and you die, that's only in this environment. If say in another environment the air was "bad", you'd be able to survive because in that environment the air reduces the mucus but not all the way to kill you (kind of like your stomach... the mucus is there as a protection, not as a burden)[b said:Quote[/b] ]Genetic disorders don't come from the environment. We aren't in a natural environment anymore.
Anything genetic can be treated with modern medicine also. Not everyone with a disorder is going to die, unlike in nature.
Genetic disorders are not something that drive evolution and it's not enough to shape human evolution.
genes don't come from the environment. Nobody said they did. However the environment does choose which genes are good and which are bad. we are in AN environment and that is the only thing that matters. there is still selection of genes and there is therefore evolution.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Genetic disorders don't come from the environment. We aren't in a natural environment anymore.
your house is an environment. The city is an environment. where you live is your environment. it doesn't have to be in the deep jungles of brazil to be an environment.[b said:Quote[/b] ]There is no environment for them to be tested by
and bacteria and fungi and everything cause us to die (SELECTING OUR GENES) so if they're natural and environmental then they're (NATURAL SELECTION)[b said:Quote[/b] ]I said bacteria and fungi are natural and environmental and they DO affect us. What? are you arguing for me? lol
Genetic disorders aren't chosen by the environment anymore since we aren't affected by an environment that has the ability to choose which one stays and goes. We aren't in a selective environment anymore. There accomodations we can deploy to combat any type of genetic disorder.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:51)]genes don't come from the environment. Nobody said they did. However the environment does choose which genes are good and which are bad. we are in AN environment and that is the only thing that matters. there is still selection of genes and there is therefore evolution.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Genetic disorders don't come from the environment. We aren't in a natural environment anymore.
In this case you do because your house doesn't affect the fact that you have a genetic disorder. Being generic won't work in this argument.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:51)]your house is an environment. The city is an environment. where you live is your environment. it doesn't have to be in the deep jungles of brazil to be an environment.[b said:Quote[/b] ]There is no environment for them to be tested by
air, sun, weather, natural disasters, the earth's magnetic field, volcanoes, plagues, diseases, HUMANS, etc.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Air is about the only thing that affects us because its something we all need that comes from the environment. Nothing else.
oh please. First of all not everything can be treated with modern medicine, secondly not everyone can afford it, thirdly not everyone is the united states and has modern medicine, fourthly if there is ANY selection at all... it doesn't matter how slowly... if the average humans that have genetic diseases reproduces less than the rest of the population, there IS selection.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Anything genetic can be treated with modern medicine also. Not everyone with a disorder is going to die, unlike in nature.
I said they were. They are an exception since they can leave the environment and live in ours. You're clarifying my point lol.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:51)]and bacteria and fungi and everything cause us to die (SELECTING OUR GENES) so if they're natural and environmental then they're (NATURAL SELECTION)[b said:Quote[/b] ]I said bacteria and fungi are natural and environmental and they DO affect us. What? are you arguing for me? lol
so people nowdays are born, live, mate, die in their houses and they never go away from them? don't be so narrow minded. Just because we spend a lot of the time in our house doesn't mean it's our only environment.[b said:Quote[/b] ]In this case you do because your house doesn't affect the fact that you have a genetic disorder
We aren't affected by them thanks to our nifty houses.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:55)]air, sun, weather, natural disasters, the earth's magnetic field, volcanoes, plagues, diseases, HUMANS, etc.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Air is about the only thing that affects us because its something we all need that comes from the environment. Nothing else.
SO THERE IS NATURAL SELECTION! THAT IS MY POINT!!![b said:Quote[/b] ]I said they were. They are an exception since they can leave the environment and live in ours. You're clarifying my point lol.
that's probably the stupidest thing I have heard in this thread.[b said:Quote[/b] ]We aren't affected by them thanks to our nifty houses.
I said everything genetic. Remember you need to stop being generic wolfboy. Genetic disorders can all be treated some sort of way.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:55)]oh please. First of all not everything can be treated with modern medicine, secondly not everyone can afford it, thirdly not everyone is the united states and has modern medicine, fourthly if there is ANY selection at all... it doesn't matter how slowly... if the average humans that have genetic diseases reproduces less than the rest of the population, there IS selection.[b said:Quote[/b] ]Anything genetic can be treated with modern medicine also. Not everyone with a disorder is going to die, unlike in nature.
Stupid as you think it is it might be true. We are in a house that we controll our own environment according to our current situation. We make out environment accomodate us.[b said:Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Jan. 23 2005,3:58)]that's probably the stupidest thing I have heard in this thread.[b said:Quote[/b] ]We aren't affected by them thanks to our nifty houses.
Tone down on the defensiveness. If you are confident about proving your point you shouldn't be so defensive.
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