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Thread: Where does everyone stand in regards to...

  1. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (nepenthes gracilis @ Jan. 23 2005,2:46)]just don't believe in Flu shots. I think they are a waste of money, let your body fend for itself.
    Flu shots basically is like giving your immune system a mug shot of the bad guys before they they go in and cause mischief.

    Last I got one, the flu shot was $15 and a loss of a single day of work for me and a everybody I know is worth more than $15.

    But otherwise I don't worry too much about germs.

    Right now my work is offering me a chance to get a free Heptatis B shot, because I have a remote chance of encountering it...haven't figured out if I want to get it yet.

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    Gives me the idea to create a harmless drug that untill you got enough in your blood stream that it would create a headache for the patient if they stopped taking the drug too early. Basically if a person doesn't take all their medication, it will make them feel bad till they take it all.

    Otherwise, I think doctors should have to rotate through antibiotics based off the month of the year. That way a strain would have a harder chance of becoming super as the environment it is trying to adapt to would keep changing. Basically go A -> B -> C instead of A -> A -> A. This is with hopes that there isn't anything immune to A, B and C.

  3. #19
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (jhaluska @ Jan. 25 2005,2:44)]Otherwise, I think doctors should have to rotate through antibiotics based off the month of the year. That way a strain would have a harder chance of becoming super as the environment it is trying to adapt to would keep changing. Basically go A -> B -> C instead of A -> A -> A. This is with hopes that there isn't anything immune to A, B and C.
    Here is a trap that tha majority of the public falls into. The time scale humans are used to can not apply when you are dealing with bacterial. With doubling times on the order of 20 minutes at 37C (that is body temp [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img] ) you go through a couple million generations a day with bacterial. So in a matter of hours you take out all the hyper sensitive, in a day the sensitive, in 3-5 days the some what resistant and in a week all but the totally resistant and your body finishes those guys off while you finish the antimicrobials to keep the rest at bay. So basically a single bottle of antimicrobials has the potential to select for resistance if not taken properly. Rotating every month does not by-pass this because you basically have a month of selection for each resistant form.

    IN all honest the best way to do it is to use cocktails of multiple drugs for each treatment but that will backfire in time for the same reasons as now (i.e. people won't take the full perscription.)

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Flu shots basically is like giving your immune system a mug shot of the bad guys before they they go in and cause mischief.

    Last I got one, the flu shot was $15 and a loss of a single day of work for me and a everybody I know is worth more than $15.
    In a way yes but if your body is only looking for that one mug shot then they miss all the other thugs that are similar. Flu shots really are kind of worthless for a number of reasons. First, they are made based on predivtive modles. So this year some yuts will guess what flu strain will be around next year and then they make a vaccine to that strain. Now given that there are somethig like 500 billion possible strains of flu it is quite possible that you will catch one that is different than the one you got the vaccination for. Secondly, it has been shown that about 40-50% of people get sick from the vaccine because the strain is not attenuated enough. And lastly, the immune response you mount to an actual flu infection is greater than that to the vaccine and so will last longer.

    What it all boils down to is that if I get the shot I have a 50% chance of getting sick from that and then there is a significant chance I'll get sick anyways because the strain in the vaccine is different from the one that infects me so rather than run the risk of getting sick twice I'll just risk doing it once.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]Right now my work is offering me a chance to get a free Heptatis B shot, because I have a remote chance of encountering it...haven't figured out if I want to get it yet.
    I'd say do it. HepBB is a good thing to have immunity too and the vaccine has some marginal cross reaction to HepC. And on top of that, it is free
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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  4. #20
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    shots give us the possibility, even a remote one, of wiping out some diseases completely. even a few hard-nosed 'mybody can handle it' people could have stood in the way between smallpox and its extinction
    that makes no logic

  5. #21
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    I am not saying all shots are bad,some are very good and I readily admit that. I am just saying that the flu shot is pointless if you are health. We are never going to wipe out flu with just vaccination.

    As for smallpox. It has not gone the way of the dinosaur, it is alive and well in numerous labs around the world. No disease will ever be wiped from the Earth because someone will always want to keep one last strain around for some reason.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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  6. #22
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]As for smallpox. It has not gone the way of the dinosaur, it is alive and well in numerous labs around the world. No disease will ever be wiped from the Earth because someone will always want to keep one last strain around for some reason
    its virtually extinct in the common populace
    that makes no logic

  7. #23

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    Thanks pyro for enumerating the problems. I have a roommate who's at the Harvard School of Public Health, and was asking him about superstrains the other day, and his nonchalance about the subject awed and dismayed me. So i'm glad to know there are some learned people who care.

    On the other hand, my father (an MD) is rabidly opposed to giving antibiotics when they are not called for, so that's good. (He was also one of those who refused to give in to strong pressure from patients to prescribe Phen Phen for weightloss back in the wonder days- but that's a different topic.) So at least it's not all doctors screwing up the future.

    I'm curious where you get your statistics about the number of people who develop flu from the vaccine. I find it very hard to believe that the FDA would continue to promote flu shots if the incidence of disease from the shot was so bad.

    Are you aware of any organized effort to get antimicrobial consumer products regulated and public awareness ads broadcast? I'd definitely be interested in supporting such a group. Right now i've just got the "bottle bill", hardly life-threatening. Although i did have a chance yesterday to explain to a couple friends about the loss of tropical forests, the consequences, and the causes. I hadn't realized how little many (most?) people know about the importance of that ecology and the destruction going on, and was gratified to find a willing audience when the subject came up. So often people just don't know.
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  8. #24
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    Only have one moment so I will elaborate later. I do not recall where I got the numbers but I want to say it was an NIH study or something. I'll try to track them down again (been aboutr 5 years since I read the study.)
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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