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Thread: Help save the arctic national wildlife refuge!

  1. #9
    Whats it to ya? Finch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]The North Slope has as much oil as the entire Middle East. And you know why they don't want people to drill any more up there? They want to wait until the rest of the world dries up, and then we can open up shop and collect the wealth of other countries.

    no way, thats a gross overstatement
    that makes no logic

  2. #10

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    rattler, instead of just arguing with everybody, either be supportive in this thread and forward it to other people, or go away and dont post and argue in this thread again.
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  3. #11
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    starman i brought up an excellent point. i see major flaws in the original post:

    "President Bush knows full well that oil drilled in the Arctic Refuge would take ten years to get to market"

    i would put $100 on it taking less than 1 year from the time the first hole is punched, give modern technology some credit.

    "an irreplaceable birthing ground for polar bears, caribou and white wolves."

    the major breeding grounds for all these species are in Canada. granted all do in Alaska also but the Artic wild life refuge is FAR from the only place in Alaska.

    "By unlocking the Arctic Refuge, they hope to open the door for oil, gas and coal giants to invade our last and best wild places: our western canyonlands, our ancient forests, our coastal waters, even our national monuments"

    the LARGEST complaint by far on this i can think of is two issues here in Montana, Looging and coal bed methane. the coal bed methane is by and large on private property and no one is allowed to drill for it and i think they should. on logging. it needs to be done selectivly. forrest fires to day are not the same as 100 years ago. why? cause we dont allow fires to burn anymore. so fuel keeps building up so when one starts it burns so hot that it kills the trees when it didnt used to.

    i generally hate organizations like this. they are only giving you half truths and the public by and large are taking them as full truths. we jsut went through a whole thread on President Bush lieing to the general public. well this organization giving half truths is the same in my book. sign the petion if yah want to. it makes more difference to me but i am being honest when i say your efforts are better spent demanding less dependance on foriegn oil by demanding more ethonal being mixed with the gasoline. its enviromentally friendly. it creates more jobs for US citizens, it creates a better market for "junk grain"(i can go more into this if yah wish but it will mean better money for small time farmers, not just big corporations) ethonal is the best bet twords energy independance not hydrogen fuels that eco-minded individuals are screaming about because it uses existing technology that is widly and currently availible. and this whole argument of mine relates DIRECTLY to the opening of the Artic wildlife refuge Starman.
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  4. #12

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    Oh for god sake, calm down already......
    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]

    You obviously support Bush, but lots of people dont, get over it.
    if all you are going to do is argue with everybody, then I think you should simply stop posting in this thread.
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  5. #13
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    actually this post of mine has nothing to do with Bush, i dont support Bush. i support his possition on some things. i dont really support or not support the Arctic drilling cause im pretty dang sure its going to happen reguardless of how loud ppl scream. on wiether i support Bush i will state that he flat out decieved the country on the No Child Left Behind Act and it is absolutly worthless and dentrimental to this nation. i also say and have ALWAYS said that the Patriot Act is one of the most un-Constitutional piece of legislation EVER proposed and should be repealed immediatly.

    and since i think the Arctic is going to be opened up reguardless i offered a more valuable way for ppl to direct their energy IF they dont want us to keep depending on foriegn oil AND they dont want more places like the Arctic refuge opened up. i am not argueing with Bonnie on what she said about my brother. i think she got the impression that he is higher up in the company than he actually is and IF he was one of the "big wigs" i would actually conceed that she may be right but since he is fairly low on the totem pole AND i know him as well as i do i can say with absolute certainty that he is no parrot for the oil company. i have seen no arguments posted against my ethonal propsals.
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    Starman I have to say there was NO arguing going on at all just statements and conversations. If any the thread had any problems they did not start until you posted. You had absolutly nothing revelant to say regarding the thread. You threw gas on the fir.... wait no you started the fire. Think, then post.
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    I don't think Rattler has said anything that can be construed as argumentative, he is posting his opinion, offering sound alternatives and alternative viewpoints. Telling him to stop posting in this thread is simply unwarranted.

    Middle Eastern Countries control somewhere in the range of 80% of the worlds KNOWN oil reserves, so saying that the new alaskan field will be as large as the middle east's fields is probably not so.

    And as was said, monetary incentives to not have an accident don't prevent accidents, but they DO provide incentives NOT to have one, incentives that cause oil companies to heavily invest in technologies that can help prevent horrible situations from occuring.

    As far as I am concerned, I think people need to be realistic in their views, just because they want to drill for oil doesn't mean they are evil polluters that are going to make a black lake on the alaskan landscape, nor do I think all the safety precautions in the world are going to keep that snow pretty as it can be.

    Oil companies exist to turn a profit, just like every other company in the world, but they are also highly concious of their environmental impact these days, someone mentioned valdez, that was a big eye opener for the world. Oil companies spend millions of dollars in environmental research each year, and employ environmentalists, I am not saying they put the environment before their profit, that would be naieve, but they do have a public image to maintain, and the land they are hoping to drill on is leased, if they break the rules then that lease can easiliy be awarded to a more responsible organization, in otherwords, while their motives may be questionable, it is in their best interest to do the cleanest job they can, oil spilled all over the snow can not be sold to you or me.

    Extremism will almost always take you down an innacurate path, and is almost never entirely correct, and I am not saying the middle of the road is right either, each person neads to find a path that is correct for them.

    To sum up in an 'on topic way' what exaclyt I mean, how about this.

    opening up a new oil reserve is a (IMHO) a responsible economic decision, doing so will most likely cause some environmental damage, and that saddens me, but In reality, all parties involved will work to reduce environmental impact and the overall effect of the project will probably benefit the nation. It's a pretty middle of the road opinion I admit.

    The chinese economy grew 8% last year, they are rapidly becoming a 'mega-consumer' society, if China were to ever reach the prosperity level of the US, there would not be enough resources in the world to build that many cars, but that's ok, we would run out fuel sources for them long before then, alternative energy research is surging ahead, and imo, were going to get there in the nick of time.
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  8. #16
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    There are 19 million acres in the ANWAR preserve. The actual footprint of the oil rigs and related logistical support area will be less than 1000 acres. That sounds like a rather small area will be impacted.
    It is true that the oil will have to be shipped out by either tanker or pipeline but the current Prudhoe Bay pipeline doesn't seem to be causing a problem and with the new double hulled tankers being proposed, that should end any possible repeat of the Exon Valdese incident...as long as we keep the Captains away from the Scotch bottle.

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