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Thread: I may lose all my plants

  1. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Mar. 22 2005,8:39)]can't they go to your house and you show them everything? that would make it easier for them to understand and for you because you don't have to write down all the names and take pictures and all that.
    No, they can't come to your house because the "man eating plants will eat them". Not to mention his dog.

    These people are total idiots (the guys prosecuting Ozzy i mean).
    Update: Parents convinced to allow me to keep greenhouse heated over winter. Most species will not be lost. Too lazy to update growlist.

  2. #98
    War. War never changes. Est's Avatar
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    I was talking with my dad, and he brought up some good points:
    Someone asked "what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?" That rule applies to criminal cases, this is a contract case, so if it's claimed that the contract is being breached, it's up to you to prove that you're not.
    Next, Ozzy, I don't think anyone has suggested this yet, but you should try to get in to contact with a biology professor at a local university. Getting even just something written from him would surely help in your case. I'd do it as a precaution if it's possible for you to do, and you simply cannot assume that you'll win a case just because you're right. Shame, really. :-\ Well, it'd sure help, in any case.
    Mmm, I'm not sure if anything else was mentioned, but that's what I remember, if there's anything else noteable, I'll be sure to post it when it comes up. In any case, Ozzy, good luck (though, I hope you wont be needing luck). I think you have a lot of great suggestions here and I hope that all will go well. Keep us up to date. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_m_32.gif[/img] Watch some ambiguous link between CP and violence come up because of that guy who shot some of his church members the other day *rolls eyes*. Think happy thoughts [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

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  3. #99
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Mar. 22 2005,5:05)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]So Ozzy... they already took and destroyed your plants?
    That was a little joke, read the rest of the post.
    I have a really bad lawyer, me.
    I see... I kind of got the impression that they had destroyed your plants already and were still holding you accountable to prove that they weren't a danger (e.g., if you couldn't prove that, they'd fine you.) Talk about sucking.
    I really think that you should look into getting a firm to take your case pro bono. This is exactly the type of case that criminal defense lawyers hope and pray for; straightforward, petty matters which can be resolved with a few affidavits and some research. I think you have a good chance at winning it by yourself, but a lawyer can defend you with much less effort and will probably jump at the chance to file the civil suits.
    In any case, I'd just love to do any number of unkind things to your antagonists, but I'll be polite and not enumerate them here. Again, best of luck.
    ~Joe

    PS - Have you talked with any of the university-types on the forums? I know that Barry Rice isn't specifically a CP botanist, but isn't he curator of Galleria Carnivora (sp?)? That could probably pull some weight. I'm not particularly aware of other botanists on the forums... I've also got to reiterate, talk to someone in toxicology at the local hospital or call up poison control, as I think they'd have the documentation you really need to convince the court (or at least give them a lot of dry, technical medical literature to slog through.)
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
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  4. #100
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    At risk of alienating any in the forum, I'll just say prosecutors can be the lowest form of humanity and this one proves it. It sounds to me like you have a prosecutor without a high profile terrorist or serial killer to beat up, so you'll have to fill in.

    I'd contact not just distant university types, but also local high school science teachers or nature center directors or a nature-savvy reporter for a nearby newspaper and describe what's happening. Point out your conservation credentials (NASC, ICPS, and whatever) and hope to create some public interest in your case.

    Like defense attorneys, prosecutors further their ambitions by being publicity hounds, but they have the power of the state behind them. The last they want is to look like an a**. But, before trying to rally any public opinion to your side, what exactly is on your list of "dangerous" animals? Reasonable people can be terrified of reptiles and you might not get much sympathy for a room full of slithery things with teeth.
    Bruce in CT

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  5. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Trapper7 @ Mar. 22 2005,8:28)]Ok I don't get this.The judge asked you if you have any dangerous plants or animals,you said no.Then she asked if you have any plants or animals,you said yes.Ok then at the end you wrote that you asked for this case to be dismissed and she said denied,then she said that you addmitted to having may be hazzardous plants or animals...NO YOU DIDN'T!!!You said NO to that part,You said yes to the part where she asked if you have just regular plain old plants and animals.You never addmitted to having possibly hazzardous animals!Am I right?Or did I misunderstand?
    No, of course ozzy didn't say his plants are dangerous, he addmitted to having non-hazardous plants on his property, it was the judge who then said these plants may be considered hazardous to the general community. He probably suspected this because ozzy said he had plants in his house though, lol.

    I say give the judge a friggin lecture about the trapping mechanisms of cps, then at the end..."Now, do you believe that these plants can harm people, your honour?" *No answer...snore*...Or you could send the judge saying the town will be invaded by cps if he/she does not comply with your wishes...

    Well I suppose the best thing to do is like Treaqum said, be aggressive but not too aggressive. They want you to MOVE just becuz of that? Man...

    Wait, wait, so the prosecutor really is your landlord? Sorry if I missed that - slightly put off by 10 pages to slog through (man this topic is going off the scale). Heck no, don't invite them to your house, seeing the real stuff might be more 'terrifying' than pictures (things with teeth). And what *if* your dog tried to bite one of them? Then you'l be screwed.

  6. #102

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    Ozzy, I'd seriously recommend at this point getting a lawyer. I can't stress this enough.

    GET A LAWYER, OR FIND YOUR PLANTS NEW HOMES NOW.

    Somebody said this is a civil (contract) case -- it is not, from my understanding. Ozzy is accused of violating a town ordinance, and faces fines and property seizure. That is a criminal case.

    The criminal justice system is set up in such a way that it chews up naive, innocent people. Never trust a judge or prosecutor. Never talk to them without your own lawyer.

    From your description of the proceedings and your behavior, you did exactly the wrong things.

    YOU NEED TO GET YOURSELF A LAWYER. For what should be a cut-and-dried case like this, you don't need a high rate one; somebody who normally does assembly-line traffic cases should be fine. You just need somebody to argue your case who is not emotionally vested in it, who understands court procedure and decorum, and who understands the law, and how to defend against BS charges.

    The charges may be bogus, but your situation is serious.

    * Make a complete list of your plants.

    * Find somebody with expert credentials to write you a letter testifying to the non-dangerous, non-toxic nature of these plants. Barry Rice or Peter D'Amato might do, but a research botanist specialising in CPs with a Ph.D. would be best; perhaps somebody here, or Barry or Peter might know of somebody.

    * Try to find a doctor who can testify that none of your plants are toxic.

    * AND FOR FRACK'S SAKE, PLEASE GET YOURSELF A LAWYER!
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  7. #103
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    Hey Ozzy,
    I have a powerpoint presentation that I can send you that was done by WildBill (or, I'm sure he has loads of copies). It might help your case. LMK.
    17 Nash Rd.
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  8. #104

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    Sarracenia Scott is right on what would work the best. The thing is, a lawyer's fee is about $250/hr, which includes research, ect. A lawyer might feel compelled to research the case a bit, rather than just show up and defend you.
    As many of you know, I ate a $2500 fine from the USDA two years ago for importing some plants(which had bugs and were destroyed). The exporter did not wait for my permit and mailed them as "Children's Toys". But according to the USDA, I was at fault for ordering them in the first place. I talked to my lawyer, and he said that by the time anyone did the research to be ready for this case, it would be already that amount in legal fees. I could have defended myself, and possibly won, but if the Judge was humourless(as yours seems to be) and did not believe me, the fine could be up to $10,000!!! I decided to cut my losses, which may not be what some others would do.
    You do need some people with credentials for verifying that cp are not dangerous. Barry meyers-Rice is one, but I also have(if it's still active) Dr. Charles Clarke's email, and I will forward him this thread and see if he will respond. He may be in Asia on one of his excursions, though.

    Cheers,

    Joe

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