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Lets discuss beliefs

  • Thread starter Treaqum
  • Start date
  • #181
it's convenient, I'll give you that. Just? maybe not.
 
  • #182
i personally dont believe it. but what's unjust about it?
 
  • #183
rewarding everybody wether they deserve it or not. It's kinda like putting a maximum 6 month sentence on any crime in the U.S..
 
  • #184
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LauraZ5 @ Mar. 25 2005,12:54)]Tee he, I have 12 litter boxes and I have no idea how many she has but there certainly isn't an edible one in the bunch. Were you referring to that disgusting Halloween Kitty Litter Cake recipe that makes everyone gag?
http://www.bertc.com/kitty.htm

Yup, that's the one! I enjoyed it - I mean I enjoyed the picture and the creativity. Not sure I'd rank it above a cheesecake or anything else for that matter.


I'm the one who has the Maine Coon looking cat. He's probably nothing more than a DLH with the Maine Coon coloration but he certainly is a nice looking animal.

Domestic Long Hair? Yes, a beautiful cat!

April left early this morning to visit her parents in Florida. She won't be back for a while and she doesn't have a lap top. Shame as I have no doubt she'd really love to jump in to this thread.

I suspect the thread will be kicking around for her when she gets back!

Good point here Jim,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There are Hebrew letters that look similar enough to have been confused

(Thanks) A Rosh and a Daled are two letters that have cause a little confusion. The Hebrew poetry and prose, where they rhyme concepts (not sounds) is interesting. But the changing of a consonant to be play on words is different than what we so. E.G.: Ya - a - cov (Jacob) and Yabbock (River) are used to make a point.

Then there are those blasted vowels that aren't there in the original manuscripts. So ya have to guess what the sounds were and what form of the word was intended.

Another valid point-
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Sometimes translating from one language to another is problematic, partially because there may be more than one meaning for a word, or that one language doesn't have word to adequately describe the meaning being conveyed.

What was that one example of our language having one word for snow and another has several, to decribe many types of flakes?
Linguistics isn't easy, but one thing about the Bible is that it is the most studied / scrutinized / critiqued book ever published.
 
  • #185
Well we could God "it" since god would either be a hamaphrodite (sp?) or Eunich depending on your definintion.
 
  • #186
Why could "god" just now want you to accnolege it. And how would you explain thbose of us who don't. why is it always "love"?
Thanks for the info on H-3, I know it was useful (nuke effeciency).
 
  • #187
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Treaqum @ Mar. 25 2005,5:56)]Well we could God "it" since god would either be a hamaphrodite (sp?) or Eunich depending on your definintion.
It wouldn't have chromosomes. Any reference at all to gender is irrelevant. Likewise with any trait dependant on being organ-based, chemistry-based, material, temporal, etc.

When envisioning God people seem to start with a person and then try to strip away everything that doesn't fit (which is quite possibly all of it), instead of just starting from scratch and looking at the universe as we currently understand it and really asking themselves what it means to be omnipotent and omniscient (and then they have to ask themselves why one should assume that being even exists in the first place... yada yada).

It's worth trying just as a thought experiment if nothing else. Don't even call it God (too many preconceptions). Just try to map out what characteristics such a being would have and see what you come up with. Don't assume any of them go without saying.
 
  • #188
Hey Jim- Sheleg, the word is sheleg. What a beautiful example you provided given the Eskimos have in excess of 20 some odd words for snow. Their words for snow describe how it comes down from the skies, how it is or isn't compacted to the ground, and what types of snow can be used for igloo construction.  This is their way of life therefore the differences are of major consequence to them. We use the word snow for all and occasionally toss in a few descriptive adjectives. Add to this perfect and imperfect tenses, constructs, idiomatic expressions, as well as a few others I am failing to recall and the waters really gut muddy out there now don't they.

Hey enparenthsis- you have a good mind.

Hey rubra- I believe in eternal darnation. I believe there to exist a special place reserved for the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer, Mao Tse-tung, Usama Bin Laden, Francisco Pizarro, Emperor Nero, Caligula, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler, H. H. Holmes, Josef Stalin,  Vlad Tepes, Ilse Koch, Josef Mengele, Saddam Hussein, Tomas de Torquemada, Adolf Eichman, Grigori Rasputin, Elizabeth Bathory, Gilles de Rais, Charles Manson, and Idi Amin, Tallat Pasha, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Atila The Hun. Did I miss anyone… yes, thousands.

Not exactly candidates for the Mormon "Baptism For The Dead" in my opinion… yet they are. I most certainly would not want them receiving General or Sacramental Absolution from a Catholic Priest by default of being in the right place at the right time... yet one may have. Spiritualist or Muslim, Buddhist or Rasta, Wiccan or Hindu;  it doesn’t seem to much matter as it certainly does appear that “tickets” to eternal life in paradise exist regardless of one’s religious affiliation. Both Christians and Non-Christians alike have built in “conveniences”. Escape routes/loopholes are laced throughout all of our religions.  Well, maybe not Wisconsin Synod Lutheran or Assemblies of God ;). By their doctrine, I’d be long on my way downstairs by now.

What a breath of fresh air to see this thread where people are not defending their religion, or lack of religion, by criticizing those who aren't like them.

My time is up in the threads or I'll end up home all alone and that wouldn't be much fun.  Have a great Easter or just a plain old relaxing Sunday.
 
  • #189
another reason why I don't believe in hell is because people like hitler and stalin and everyone else have ALREADY been through hell. that's exactly why they're like that.
hitler had such a horrible life as a young kid that he once tried to run away... but his dad found him and beat the crap out of him so bad that he was in a comma for three days.
by the way... there's a common misconception that hitler was athiest... well, he was christian.
 
  • #190
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LauraZ5 @ Mar. 25 2005,8:20)]Hey enparenthsis- you have a good mind.
I appreciate that... I figured most people here thought I was full of it by now.
smile_n_32.gif


I wonder if Jesus would have forgiven Hitler. Did his teachings of things like love and forgiveness include cut-off points? (I'm genuinely asking... not making a point.)
 
  • #191
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Hey rubra- I believe in eternal darnation. I believe there to exist a special place reserved for the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer, Mao Tse-tung, Usama Bin Laden, Francisco Pizarro, Emperor Nero, Caligula, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler, H. H. Holmes, Josef Stalin, Vlad Tepes, Ilse Koch, Josef Mengele, Saddam Hussein, Tomas de Torquemada, Adolf Eichman, Grigori Rasputin, Elizabeth Bathory, Gilles de Rais, Charles Manson, and Idi Amin, Tallat Pasha, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Atila The Hun. Did I miss anyone… yes, thousands.

The problem I see there, is that most people at some point or other could easily turn into one of them, but never achieve the international recognition. Anyone who hates at anytime, is really no better than the guy who becomes infamous because of his circumstances. Or what about the person who never does a bit of good? Then you could go into the people who only did terrible things because they grew up in terrible environments. My point is, that there really is no way to judge people fairly, because none of us is really better than another.
 
  • #192
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LauraZ5 @ Mar. 26 2005,2:20)]I believe in eternal darnation. I believe there to exist a special place reserved for the likes of Jeffrey Dahmer, Mao Tse-tung, Usama Bin Laden, Francisco Pizarro, Emperor Nero, Caligula, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler, H. H. Holmes, Josef Stalin,  Vlad Tepes, Ilse Koch, Josef Mengele, Saddam Hussein, Tomas de Torquemada, Adolf Eichman, Grigori Rasputin, Elizabeth Bathory, Gilles de Rais, Charles Manson, and Idi Amin, Tallat Pasha, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Atila The Hun. Did I miss anyone… yes, thousands.
ok most of these people were evil, however caligula would likely have been committed to a mental institution today, i mean he tried to name his favorite horse a senator, so im not sure we should assume he should get darned, i mean i think what ever the greater power out there is would be somewhat forgiving with people that he allowed to have mental problems.

oh and somewhere back someone mentioned cannibalism and made it sound like a religion.  Cannibalism is a ritual practice not a religion in itself, although it is condoned/supported by some religions.  Also the fact that is disgusts/outrages/horrifies most of us is a product of our cultural belief that eating the dead, or really having any contact with the dead is undesirable.  Often times cannibalism is part of a mortuary ritual and is actully an honor to the person being consumed because it is believe that a part of them lives on through those who consumed them.
 
  • #193
uhm...
did any of you ppl see that cannibilism show on history channel a week ago?
I got bored halfway through...but like ktulu said, it's not a religion, its a practice..starving people eat their dead-not practicing religion in any way
oh yes im going to bring up something from early in this topic
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]isn't there the purgatory too? I don't get the purgatory... can anyone tell me what the purgatory is? just a waiting room?
Purgatory is supposedly where you go to get punished, for believers, then you go to heaven. It isn't mentioned in the bible by word, but is implied in different places. (i.e. God forgives you if you ask..but if you never asked him to forgive you for one sin, what happens?)
The reason, besides blind faith in the Bible for logical reasons to believe in some supernatural power is that it seems quite coincidental that the universe expanded at the exact rate possible for life to form
And then human emotions, and also the consience (right and wrong) are so complex there must be a mind behind them
If you say those were made for survival of human life by evolution, that doesn't fit because "rage" and "hate" certainly don't help humans survive.
Everyone is evil, if everyone was a paper and you put dirt on it, some covered in mud, some with a tiny spot, they're all "dirty" and in Christianity, to get into heaven you can't be dirty.
 
  • #194
[b said:
Quote[/b] (droseradude @ Mar. 26 2005,6:42)]uhm...
did any of you ppl see that cannibilism show on history channel a week ago?
that wasnt the one that talked about neadertal and how they were cannibals was it cause if so that show was horrible. i dont remember what channel it was on but it was just awful the assumptions they made.

Oh and i forgot to mention that we are all the decendents of cannibals, so we shouldnt get so bent out of shape at the thought of it.
 
  • #195
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The reason, besides blind faith in the Bible for logical reasons to believe in some supernatural power is that it seems quite coincidental that the universe expanded at the exact rate possible for life to form
What rate is that, exactly? There was plenty of time for whole ecosystems to develop on other planets before our first multi-celled lifeform showed up. Likewise there are probably planets out there where life has just begun. And what about those hundreds of millions of years "wasted" on the dinosaurs rather than developing right into humanity's lineage?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]And then human emotions, and also the consience (right and wrong) are so complex there must be a mind behind them If you say those were made for survival of human life by evolution, that doesn't fit because "rage" and "hate" certainly don't help humans survive.
They're extremely useful. If someone is taking everything you have and leaving you to die... rage suddenly becomes pretty handy if you intend to survive. For intelligent social animals to work together and get along, empathy is pretty handy too.
 
  • #196
what exacly did these people do (or maybe nicknaemes would help, Vlad is "the impalier" right?):
Dahmer, Francisco Pizarro, Emperor Nero, Caligula, Genghis Khan, Pol Pot,  H. H. Holmes, Vlad Tepes, Ilse Koch, Tomas de Torquemada, Adolf Eichman, Elizabeth Bathory, Gilles de Rais, Charles Manson, and Idi Amin, Tallat Pasha, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Atila The Hun.
Yes Alpha is right people like Hitler already went through hell.  Actually (don;t quote me on this) I think he told his teacher his father was beating him before he ran away.  I am fairly sure his teacher was jewish and so his hate of them came out of his father beating him because hte teacher did nothing to help him.  Being rational would have made him only hate his teacher but I thnk he was driven past that.
Soem of those other people are hailed as heros, or "great men". So is your point we are making heros out of greatly terrible people?  And so everyone who thinks of them as heros/great men should go to hell because they beleve that they were great.
 
  • #197
Canibalism reminds me of a song:
"do you smell what I smell
A child
A child
Dinner's on the way
Yum Yum Yum, Yum Yum Yum (refrain)
Do you hear what I hear
A child
A child
Screaming in the dark
(refrain)
Do you see what I see
A child
A child
roasting on a spit
(refrain)
do you taste what I taste
A child
A child
disolving in my mouth
(refrain)
Yum Yum Yum, Yum Yum Yum.

Well it's funny when you hear it, gets stuck in your head and unfortunatly you may start to sing it. (Not a good tune when volunteering with Small children)
smile.gif
 
  • #198
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yes Alpha is right people like Hitler already went through hell. Actually (don;t quote me on this) I think he told his teacher his father was beating him before he ran away. I am fairly sure his teacher was jewish and so his hate of them came out of his father beating him because hte teacher did nothing to help him. Being rational would have made him only hate his teacher but I thnk he was driven past that.
Soem of those other people are hailed as heros, or "great men". So is your point we are making heros out of greatly terrible people? And so everyone who thinks of them as heros/great men should go to hell because they beleve that they were great.

Ok so I don't have any arguments but I did wanna quote it... I guess reverse phsycology was in effect... LOL
smile_n_32.gif


I was the one that mentioned cannibalism. I was not meaning to make it sound like a religion(it's the religion that causes the cannibalism)... I don't even remember what I was talking about....

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]"do you smell what I smell
A child
A child
Dinner's on the way
Yum Yum Yum, Yum Yum Yum (refrain)
Do you hear what I hear
A child
A child
Screaming in the dark
(refrain)
Do you see what I see
A child
A child
roasting on a spit
(refrain)
do you taste what I taste
A child
A child
disolving in my mouth
(refrain)
Yum Yum Yum, Yum Yum Yum.

That is kinda scary.... who would want to come with that kinda song?
smile_h_32.gif
 
  • #199
besides... can you really punish people because of their genes? there are some genetic diseases which make you crazy/hateful/etc. ... I believe most serial killers are XYY?
also suicides and other things can have SOME basis on genetics (oy... watch this statement be twisted into it being ALL genetic...) for example... chemical imbalances of the brain can lead to depression which can make you commit suicide.
so if a god punishes people for that... I know people nicer than God.

changing subject...souls:
when you die...is your personality the same? so when babies die they're just as useless and ignorant about the world as they were when they died? if your soul just keep the knowledge it had when you died then... you're still pretty stupid even if you're the wisest person in the world.
can you learn things as a spirit? if so... what the heck is the point of being alive?
if you believe in reincarnation... what happens after you've completed your re-births? what's the point? and why do you forget each life you live when you come back? you just have to re-learn everything once again... how pointless.
so what IS the point of having a soul AND a body?
 
  • #200
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]for example... chemical imbalances of the brain can lead to depression which can make you commit suicide.
so if a god punishes people for that... I know people nicer than God.

True genetics can cause you to be that way, but just cause you are does not mean that you can't fight it. You can have a tendancy to be overweight but if you watch carefully you can fight it. Same with the tendancy to think of suicide. By the way most of the chemical are resessive sot the X and Y chromosome needs to be lowercase. But I could be wrong... I'm definately not into genetics that much.
smile_m_32.gif
 
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