What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

When does life truly begin?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well? Where does everyone stand in regards to (wdesirt) abortion? I think that life only truly begins when the new organism is self sufficient enough to breathe on it's own. This would make life truly begin at birth, there for dispelling the theory that abortion is murder.

What is everyone else's thoughts to this?
 
None of my business. I feel that whatever a person does to their own body, is their business, not mine. This murder stuff is just more religious right B.S. They evidently don't think God is in charge. Why else would they feel the need to kill the Doctors who feel they are helping the ladies who feel it necessary for them. If God wanted them dead, they'd BE dead, without any help from any human.
 
my scientific side says life began once, billions of years ago.... blah blah you know the story.
I really can't answer what you're asking since that would require me to believe in souls.... I guess...
but anyway I think abortion should be legal up until the time when the fetus begins to think and feel. fetuses before they can think and feel are in the same level as plants.
I don't agree with the breathing thing because breathing is really not a determining step for me... if it try to breathe in the womb, it would die. It's just breathing outside the womb because it has to.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I feel that whatever a person does to their own body, is their business, not mine. This murder stuff is just more religious right B.S.
ironically, I have to disagree. lol.
I don't consider babies as part of their mothers. They're separate organisms. I do think that killing a baby that is about to be born is murder.

parents don't own kids.
 
I personly feel that abortion is wrong. I don't think I could ever abort a child that is mine. Even though I feel that abortion is wrong I fully support the right to have one. Like bug said it's none of my business what somebody else does.
 
I was once put in the position of wanting a child that the mother did not want. She went through with the abortion against my will.

My personal belief: A fetus, at any stage, is a GENETICALLY independent organism, it has it's own identity through that DNA, and is therefore a seperate life. It's DNA says it's human, and it should therefore be granted all the rights of a human child.

And not everyone on the religious right is a bomb toting doctor killer.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (RamPuppy @ April 11 2005,10:21)]I was once put in the position of wanting a child that the mother did not want. She went through with the abortion against my will.

My personal belief: A fetus, at any stage, is a GENETICALLY independent organism, it has it's own identity through that DNA, and is therefore a seperate life. It's DNA says it's human, and it should therefore be granted all the rights of a human child.

And not everyone on the religious right is a bomb toting doctor killer.
You're right it's genetically independant, but it's not "alive" yet. your sperm is genetically independant too. I think something is alive when and if you can take it out of the womb and it can live without special aid.
 
still don't agree. say you have a tapeworm. is it part of you? it can't live outside of your body. is it not alive?
same thing with fetuses. They have their own hearts and lungs etc. I definately think they're alive.
(ROFLMAO... me comparing babies to parasites...
well, they are! they're nutrient sucking, oxygen absorbing organisms that grow inside you and stuff.)
 
  • #10
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ April 11 2005,10:45)]still don't agree. say you have a tapeworm. is it part of you? it can't live outside of your body. is it not alive?
same thing with fetuses. They have their own hearts and lungs etc. I definately think they're alive.
thats a parasitic organism. it can't live without being inside someone so thats not something you should use to compare. a 3 month old fetus out of the womb isn't alive and will die. i don't know if at early stages, it can even be called an organism since early on some organs haven't even formed yet.
 
  • #11
smile_n_32.gif
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]My personal belief: A fetus, at any stage, is a GENETICALLY independent organism, it has it's own identity through that DNA, and is therefore a seperate life.

Kind of like a seed? Can fetuses be at any stage considerd 'dormant'? humm
 
  • #12
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]thats a parasitic organism. it can't live without being inside someone so thats not something you should use to compare. a 3 month old fetus out of the womb isn't alive and will die. i don't know if at early stages, it can even be called an organism since early on some organs haven't even formed yet.
that's my point. neither fetuses nor parasites can live outside of their hosts, yet they're alive. If you want to say fetuses aren't alive, you'll have to choose another reason :p.
and true... the organs may not be formed... but let's say you have frog eggs. are they alive? they're just a ball of cells but I consider them alive.
so basically early fetuses are like parasitic frog eggs. LOL
 
  • #13
OK folks. Its fine if you want to debate/discuss this issue. But...please remember this is about personal beliefs and opinions. Keep it about your own feelings and not about convincing someone to change theirs. If you can't keep it civil and respectful, this will be shut down.

That said...In my OPINION...abortion is a very deeply personal issue...not a legal one. Its not one that should be legislated by politicians who may follow a particular religion (i.e. Christian) which will force their personal beliefs on people of other faiths and belief systems. Its a difficult and painful decision to be made between the father and mother as well as family, medical and religious advisors when desired as additional consults.

Although personally I don't go for late term abortions, it should be up to the mother to decide if she wants to carry a child or not. People don't realize that even in modern times, child-bearing carries a fairly high mortality risk. Women should be able to decide if they want that risk or not. I also believe that babies have a right to be born to a parent or parents that truly WANT them. Although adoption is an option, too many people who don't really want to have a baby end up keeping them because of societal pressures. It is a supreme act of love to give up a child to someone who can offer him/her a better life.
 
  • #14
I personally do not care what people do...I have enough to deal with, then argue over someone that I do not know. You are pro life? Great! You are pro choice? Great! It is all about your religious beliefs/family beliefs passed down. I am not to say what is right...I just keep this in the family, beyound that I really could careless what someone does in Buckwheat, Michigan or any other place.
 
  • #15
I believe in it.I had to have one 3 years ago.I was raped and unfortunetly I got pregnant,and I really didn't think it was right to keep the baby.Another reason was because I'm on a seizure medication,and if you're on this certain medication,it's illegal to have a baby cause it will be deformed or mentally handicapped or something terrible like that.So anywho,yeah I believe in it.*Niki*
 
  • #16
[b said:
Quote[/b] (scottychaos @ April 11 2005,10:37)]what does "wdesirt" mean?
Where
Does
Everyone
Stand
In
Regards
To

Holy crap! Niki, you're serious? I definitely agree that if the person was inpregnated against their will, it is their right to have an abortion no matter what any future law may say.

I think that early term abortions are the best time to do it if at all. Later term abortions are kind of iffy. I'm no doctor, but it it's 8 or almost 9 months, then i think the baby can actually survive the abortion. After the first kick, then i'd say it's not quite right, it has enough mental power to do that. I still hold fast to my opinon that true life only begins at birth because the fetus is completely reliant on the mother for anything and everything. Parasites like tapeworms can move around the body freely, and feed themselves, and breathe through whatever means they have on their own. The umbilical cord delivers all needs to the baby.
 
  • #18
Yeah unfortunetly I'm serious,but it's ok I got(and still getting)professional help for it.Anyways,when I called the clinic where I was gonna get my abortion they said that I had to be AT LEAST 7 weeks pregnant before I was allowed to get the abortion.It was weird,I thought you would be able to get it as soon as you found out.They also said that here(Canada)you can't get an abortion after 3 and a half months,so I don't understand how some people can get one at 8 months! I think that's WAY too late,and if you waited that long then you might as well have it and think about giving it up for adoption instead.*Niki*
 
  • #19
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TunaSurprise @ April 11 2005,9:54)]Well? Where does everyone stand in regards to (wdesirt) abortion? I think that life only truly begins when the new organism is self sufficient enough to breathe on it's own. This would make life truly begin at birth, there for dispelling the theory that abortion is murder.

What is everyone else's thoughts to this?
You really want a flamewar, don't you?

Go to www.iidb.org to discuss this if you want a meaningful debate.

That said, I'm an atheist, and it is alive at conception. Look it up in a biology textbook. But that's not the relevant criterion. For me, the relevant criterion is, at what point does this fetus develop self-awareness, consciousness, identity? That is when it becomes a human life. It clearly happens at some point in time after conception, and before birth. Probably sometime towards the end of the 2nd trimester or beginning of the third.
 
  • #20
OK, I have to admit, I am in a pretty bad mood today. My earlier response I normally wouldn't of made (not that it is inflamatory). But I am really wondering about our policy to allow discussions like this to take place here... it's only a matter of time before it blows up in our face... and honestly, this is one of those discussions that is so 'charged' no good can come from it.

BTW, your definition for parasitic does not match, a parasite is detrimental to the host. What you are describing, is one way symbiosis (not the proper term for it, but I am to tired and grumpy to go look.)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top