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I am upset.

I had allowed my 3 strongest venus flytraps to grow their flowers. They were within days of blooming. I was hoping to get seed from them.

We came home from church today, and I went outside to look at them, and all three inflorescences had been ripped off!

I found them in a little bouquet of weed flowers my daughters had collected from the yard, almost certainly the doing of the 3 year old; the 5 year old doesn't pick flowers as much.

I confronted the two of them and they both blamed the other, but there was hesitation in the 3 year old's voice, and the desperation in the 5 year old's voice told me she was telling the truth.

So I spanked the 3 year old. I had shown her the flowers, I had told her she wasn't to touch them, she acknowledged she understood she would be punished if she touched them. She did this to test the limits.

Now my wife is treating me like i just slaughtered bunnies.
 
You HIT your 3 year old for picking flowers?!
smile_k_ani_32.gif

Sorry man, that is wrong in my opinion, what would have been MUCH better is to educate her and tell her nicely that these are your very special plants and that she is not to touch them or pick their flowers.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Starman @ April 17 2005,3:10)]You HIT your 3 year old for picking flowers?!
smile_k_ani_32.gif

Sorry man, that is wrong in my opinion, what would have been MUCH better is to educate her and tell her nicely that these are your very special plants and that she is not to touch them or pick their flowers.
If I had flown off the handle and slapped her, I'd agree with you.

I put her on my knee and swatted her butt.  Barely harder, I might add, when i give her a playful swat on the fanny.

But the intent behind it changes everything.

And this is a child not fazed by times-out or lost toys.

I think parents these days are WAY too permissive with their children.  Whether your preferred punishment is spanking, taking away toys, or lost privileges, I think parents of my generation are too loathe to employ them, and we're going to end up with a generation of narcissistic, self-absorbed, self-centered, indulgent brats.
 
Well I see why your wife is mad at you. I sort-of agree with her and Starman.
 
Not to get into a debate about the ethics of child punishment but imo there is a big difference between abuse and discipline. Abuse = punching and kicking your kids throwing them agaisnt walls etc. Discipline = smacking their fannies to show that there will be consequences when they do stupid things. My parents disciplined me a bit when I was little (my dad even made a special wooden paddle) and as such I didn't do that many stupid things growing up and I never called abuse. Hell the spankings didn't even hurt it was just that my parents were angry at me that hurt me the most.
 
I have to agree with Scott. I think parents are not tough enough with their kids.
 
Well I agree on the don't hit thing. Loss of privilges is good. Taking away toys has a way of making them worse. Well in my opinon.
 
I remember that I was always talked to and made to see what I did was wrong. Oh yeah that visit to see what jailwas like in First Grade helped. It was a field trip.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ALLOSAURZ @ April 17 2005,3:19)]Not to get into a debate about the ethics of child punishment but imo there is a big difference between abuse and discipline.
Absolutely! Unfortunately, it seems all of society is leaning towards considering any remotely physical punishment as abuse. And some parents i know seem to consider ANY punishment as some form of abuse.
 
  • #10
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Treaqum @ April 17 2005,3:21)]I remember that I was always talked to and made to see what I did was wrong.  Oh yeah that visit to see what jailwas like in First Grade helped.  It was a field trip.
I always talk to them afterwards and make sure they understand why it happened.

My wife and I do agree on the use of spanking for safety-related rules infractions.  Running into the street, leaving the house without asking permission, etc, all get a spanking.  At the age of 5 and 3, they don't understand what the real consequences could be, but they DO understand the fear of Daddy's belt.  (Actually, I just use open hand...)

I also spank for lying or stealing.  That's the main reason I spanked her; she lied about picking the flowers.
 
  • #11
you disciplined her, not abused her.

but they are only flowers. and she's only 3

you could have given sent her to bed without desert or something.
 
  • #12
I really see nothing wrong with lightly hitting her for picking the flowers. She had been warned and she did lie.
 
  • #13
Welcome to the wonderful world of parenting!
smile_m_32.gif
Spanking, in general, is not the best way to go. However, every child is different, even within the esame family. what works for one kid may not work for another. Sometimes, NOTHING works. There aren't eay, foolproof approaches to all kids and situations. I know what you mean about kids not responding to things. My daughter was unfazed with a "in control" spanking. My oldest son, all ya had to do is raise your voice, and he was in tears. My Aspererger Syndrome son wouldn't know operant conditioning if he tripped over it. He wouldn't understand why he was being punished.

But this wasn't a child discipline issue. It's a I'm hurt because my kid destroyed my flowers and my wife is mad at me because we disagreed on how to handle the situation and now I feel even worse - thing and I don't know how to make things right - issue.
 
  • #14
The point is she was told not to do something, she did it anway, knew it was wrong, then lied about it.  That's worthy of a swat on the fanny, and getting sent to your room. Lying is the worst. IMO.

My mother was a master of corporal punishment...of the psychological kind.  She almost never hit us...

When we were bad, she'd send us out to the hedgerow, and make us pick out the switch she was going to use on us.  And if it wasn't a big enough switch, she'd send us back out to pick another one.  By this time...we would be crying so hard, she didn't have to switch us.  

One day, feeling I was about to be unjustly punished(my sister had said the "S" word. She had to have heard it from me!), I went to the wood pile and dragged in a 4 foot log.  She about died laughing.  

Or, she'd send us to the 7-11 to buy one of those paddle-ball things.  We'd bring it home, crying hysterically all the way.  Then she'd sit down and make us watch her s-l-o-w-l-y pry off the staple that held the elastic string with the ball.  She never had to use the paddle!  

My father, on the other hand...
 
  • #15
[b said:
Quote[/b] (jimscott @ April 17 2005,3:53)]But this wasn't a child discipline issue. It's a I'm hurt because my kid destroyed my flowers and my wife is mad at me because we disagreed on how to handle the situation and now I feel even worse - thing and I don't know how to make things right - issue.
ding ding ding

We have a winner!
 
  • #16
That reminds me of my older sister, who was a 5th grade school teacher. She had kids go outside and pick up rocks. That was all - just pick up rocks. Worked like a charm.
 
  • #17
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Lying is the worst. IMO
yup, I agree.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]My mother was a master of corporal punishment...of the psychological kind. She almost never hit us...
lol. I know I was spanked as a lil kid but it was so long ago and so few times that I don't remember a single time I was spanked. I was taught morals not dicipline.
 
  • #18
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ April 17 2005,4:05)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Lying is the worst. IMO
yup, I agree.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]My mother was a master of corporal punishment...of the psychological kind.  She almost never hit us...
lol. I know I was spanked as a lil kid but it was so long ago and so few times that I don't remember a single time I was spanked. I was taught morals not dicipline.
Morals and discipline go hand in hand.
 
  • #19
well... my parents don't have to dicipline me because they taught me morals and they know i'll try to do the right thing without them having to punish me.
Like just recently... I got *cough cough* somewhat bad grades (ok fine they were horrible...) and I didn't get punished or anything. Why? because she knows i'll try harder and stuff without she having to do anything to me.

although I guess you could teach morals through dicipline... I don't know.
 
  • #20
Gosh, that's never happened to me before! NOT! Seriously, humbly, go talk to your wife. Ask her how she feels it ought to have been handled. Seek forgiveness. See if your daughter is okay with you picking her up and holding her. Ask for forgiveness. It is better to have a healed relationship than to prove yourself right in less than black & white scenarios.
 
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