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Very, very good news

  • Thread starter aprilh
  • Start date
  • #22
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]ratteler who pushed the bighorn sheep, bison, pronghorn, and elk from those states in the firstplace so conservation of them was needed? u kind of left out a important part there,

You can hardly compare the hunters of current days to the settlers of the americas. It is like comparing the slave owners to modern day people.
I will leave my thaughts on this subject at that, This should remain a possitive thread about the great rediscovery of a species.
 
  • #23
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Finch @ April 28 2005,9:36)]aprilh, hunters were definatly NOT part of the final decent of the passenger pigeon to extinction, altough they are mostly responsible towards its decline. It seems this species evolved in such a way that it could only exist viably in huge flocks and not as small colonies. Huge coloy numbers (<6000? - purely hypothetcal guess) probably stimulated breeding. While that # undoubtedly existed after the huge killing sprees ended, very few single colonya that size (big enough to stimulatemost of the birds to breed) were in existance, so the remminants probably faild to reproduce near the end, even if it was well within the threshold in witch succesfull recovery was possible in most other species.
Thank you, being alittle tipsy as I am right now. I couldn't seem to hit the right keys to get that across. Glad to see someone else got it out while I was working on my last post.
 
  • #24
the passenger pigeons are small and sufficent habitat still existed in large tracts, with the primary food plant beech being able to quickly regenerate from cut stumps after the forest was cleared. Plus this pecies was nomadic, so once food supply was exausted in one area it would find food in another- a habit developed due to the unpredictability of beech 'mast' (years of hevy fruiting)
No doubt the hunters were cause of extinction but its not like every single individual was blown to high heven, the last just failed to reproduce, they wernt all shot out of the sky.
 
  • #25
The extiction of the Carolina parkeet was due more to farmers than hunters. They were seen as a pest because a flock would totaly wipe out a farmers crop. Farmers would kill a single bird and the rest of the flock would come to that one birds aid. The farmers then killed the whole flock.
 
  • #26
I know, it seems so tragic to me that they wouldnt leave their flockmate. how touching. It reminds me of sailors on islands where the species were so tame that they were dispatched with the swing of a good stick or club right off their perches. It wasnt for sport on islands: they killed them because they could.
 
  • #27
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ April 28 2005,10:08)]lol. tasmanian wolf? *snickers*
it's tasmanian tiger! You've been thinking of me too much
smile_n_32.gif

and just to clarify, they're not tigers. They're marsupials related to tasmanian devils.
smile.gif
 They were not tigers nor wolves nor were they related to Tasmanian devils other than that were marsupials and carnivores. They were called tigers simply because of their stripes.  Their skulls most resemble placental wolves, but they were marsupials and are still scientifically known as genus thylacinus and species cynocephalus, a genus all their own.
I suppose they were called wolves only because of their similarity to canid (coyote or wolf).  Their claws were not retractable, like the big cats, though.

But they're extict, so yeah, you can still be the alpha wolf.  LOL
 
  • #28
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Cool, maybe soon there will be enough to open a hunting season for them.
I love a good sense of humor.
What do they taste like Ozzie?
laugh.gif
 
  • #30
ahhhh the infomous market "hunters" these guys were in business to make money, they were not hunters. they were supplying meat to the big citys, they werent taking a few animals a year to help feed their families. the real hunters are who did a major help to put a major stop to that.

on "tree huggers" and hunters getting along. the problem is most of the hunters are fairly grounded in reality, want to keep more out of the public eye and support their cause and the "tree hugger/green peace" types are interested in getting on TV, shouting to the world about their cause and directing very lil actual money to doing good with their cause. hunters open their wallet and checkbooks quite wide every year. the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Ducks Unlimited and other such organizations bring in tremendous money directly from hunters whit very lil fan fare and such so the vast majority of that money get put where it does the most good. you want a good example with bighorn sheep? North Dakota has a small but steady bighorn population in its weatern badlands. i think 8 permits are drawn every year for hunting them. 7 to residents and than they auction of a 8th permit to an "out of stater" this permit generally goes for around $100,000 IIRC all profit of this ticket goes directly to conservation efforts for the bighorns in ND. if someone was just interested in hunting bighorn sheep they could do it for a small fraction of that and have a better sucess rate by hunting the EXACT SAME subspecies in Colorado or Wyoming or Montana.

hunters ingeneral put their money where there mouth is, if the "tree huggers" would come down to reality, do the same in putting money twords their cause and sit and have a beer with us over some nice juicy elk steaks i bet we would get along famously. yes our goal are one in the same for the most part. one section just isnt thinking as clearly from what i see
 
  • #31
A question asked of me once: How do you shoot those precious Bambi's??
My answer: Right between the eyes.
For some reason, she didn't want to talk to me anymore.
 
  • #32
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bugweed @ April 29 2005,8:59)]A question asked of me once: How do you shoot those precious Bambi's??
My answer: Right between the eyes.
For some reason, she didn't want to talk to me anymore.
I'm willing to bet she didn't contribute a thing towards humanitarian causes either.
 
  • #33
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] I love a good sense of humor.
What do they taste like Ozzie?
laugh.gif

I don't know......YET!

I tried a humming bird once, they tasted like feathers. It took 3 shots from my AK-47 to bring it down.

Seriously, I'm not a hunter, but I believe that since the decline of the north American preditors, hunters and our cars have now taken the role that they once had. I'd much rather have the hunters play that role, then my car.
 
  • #34
lol true Ozzy, even with hunting considered normal and popular around here there are roads where you take your life in your hands driving after dark for all the deer. and to think 40 some years ago deer were extreamly uncommon here, my grandfather used to talk about how hard the hunting was and you had a hard time even finding a deer to shoot.
 
  • #35
The bats still have hope.
Yes I know Ozzy was being Ironic
 
  • #36
Well Bush would have had a problem if he did nothing about the Ivory Bills
 
  • #37
I'd much rather native north american predators take the place of hunters, but...people get kind of angry when bobcats pick off their poodles and toddlers.  You should hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth when coyotes are seen in town..., collecting people's pets.  Hellooooooo...your dang cats and dogs and toddlers don't belong outside running free.  EVER.  

The hunters will do for now, in fact, I wish we had more hunters here...the deer are destroying the understory in the forests.  They've added a bow season this year  
smile_m_32.gif
 April
 
  • #38
yep were gonna have a sing on our land that says DEER HUNTERS WELCOME. The willows, cottonwoods and bur oaks are giving way to weeds like japanese barberry and russian olive because of hevy deer presure- oaks and other succepteble species like willows and poplars along with magnolias are being prevented from regenerating, changing the forest ecology. that definatly means that theres a problem when oaks are eliminated from ecotyps they once dominated.

and it want just market hunters, some were just there to shoot and kill back then (bloodlust), but there not really hunters, even if some groups say thats what a hunter is... no, its not.
 
  • #39
Yes, there are now way too many deer in my area.  I still get a thrill from seeing them though.  That won't ever go away, as I remember when they were scarce.  but they are now chewing through everything, and the time comes when there must be some kind of balance, artificially imposed or not.

Market hunters were hunters.  If one has a gun, and it's used to shoot things...the firearm user is a hunter. whether or not it's for personal or market use. Period.  And firearm users can take half to three quarters of the credit for the extinction of the passenger pigeon, and total credit for the near extinction of the American Bison. Before Europeans arrived on this continent, Indians didn't have access to rifles, and bison were not endangered.

While I've stated that I'm not against hunting...please stop trying to make it any more or less than that which it really is about. Killing animals for sport.  And spare me the "communing with nature" stuff.  Some people just enjoy killing things.  Aprilh.
 
  • #40
The Florida panther is an example of an animal that has such a reduced gene pool. They even have a genetic trait that most/all have a crook in their tail. Last time I read about them, other panthers were being used to strengthen the gene pool.

The African cheetah is so inbred that there DNA is almost identical. They have all sorts of health problems. This was supposed to be some historical incident were their numbers were so reduced that inbreeding resulted.

I think the bison was hunted by man, but this was an attempt to eliminate the Native American's food supply. Not in any history book - just my line of thinking on the subject.

BTW, the Ivory Bill will be found in other areas. Shhhhhhh!

Tweek
 
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