TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
Who are the goths among us?
- Thread starter jimscott
- Start date
nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
superimposedhope
Somewhat Unstable
I'm one.
"What is goth" conversations often get repetitive or lead to arguments. My personal feeling is that "goth" is an overriding aesthetic, which incorporates music, fashion, the visual arts, literature, and, to a lesser extent, philosophy.
There have been some fascinating anthropological studies done, which have found interesting things like goths have a much larger idea of personal space, and will always spread out to take up the space on the dance floor.
There's a musician/animator/writer living in New York called Voltaire (not to be confused with the dead one) who is a goth, and was motivated by people asking him the "what is goth?" question that he wrote a book about it. Its called "What is Goth?", and for the curious it is both entertaining and informative.
Finally, I'm personally not a vampire (or a mummy or a werewolf or anything like that, nor do I believe that I have supernatural powers) and I don't care for Marylin Manson. Most goths I know (and I know lots, go figure) are in their late 20s - late 30s, and vary from struggling artists to professionals working in everything from computers to medicine.
"What is goth" conversations often get repetitive or lead to arguments. My personal feeling is that "goth" is an overriding aesthetic, which incorporates music, fashion, the visual arts, literature, and, to a lesser extent, philosophy.
There have been some fascinating anthropological studies done, which have found interesting things like goths have a much larger idea of personal space, and will always spread out to take up the space on the dance floor.
There's a musician/animator/writer living in New York called Voltaire (not to be confused with the dead one) who is a goth, and was motivated by people asking him the "what is goth?" question that he wrote a book about it. Its called "What is Goth?", and for the curious it is both entertaining and informative.
Finally, I'm personally not a vampire (or a mummy or a werewolf or anything like that, nor do I believe that I have supernatural powers) and I don't care for Marylin Manson. Most goths I know (and I know lots, go figure) are in their late 20s - late 30s, and vary from struggling artists to professionals working in everything from computers to medicine.
Second time around I noticed the "how long has it been around?" subtext. The easy answer is a few decades, that goth came out of punk (or was punk internalized). Certainly many of the early goth bands (Siousxe & the Banshees, Alien Sex Fiend, etc) centered around the Bat Cave in London, as well as the ones in LA (Rozz Williams Christian Death) were moving out of punk and into what later came to be known as goth. It is not verified but commonly accepted that Siousxe herself coined the term. Goth, more or less as we know it today, started back in the late 70s. And yes, there are 50-year-old goths. They're really jaded.
The etymology of the term is as follows. Rome was sacked by Visigoths, or Goths. No, they weren't into fishnets, absinthe, liquid eyeliner and bad poetry. But they were connected (I forget how, perhaps geographically?) to the gothic arch, which was the heart of gothic architecture. A lot of people thought gothic architecture was pretty spooky, and some people started, in the Victorian era, to write spooky novels about spooky things which often took place in spooky settings like gothic cathedrals. Thus the terms "gothic novel" and "gothic literature" were coined to describe these stories. And a "goth" has become someone who reads too many of said stories.
Goth has also been connected with Romanticism; it has, in fact, often been refered to as "new romanticism". I kinda hate to admit this; I thought "The Sorrows of Young Werther" was awful. But the main tenets of Romanticism find pretty direct paralells in goth. But the ideas of man alone in the face of nature/the universe and empathy/intuition above reason find pretty direct correlation.
The etymology of the term is as follows. Rome was sacked by Visigoths, or Goths. No, they weren't into fishnets, absinthe, liquid eyeliner and bad poetry. But they were connected (I forget how, perhaps geographically?) to the gothic arch, which was the heart of gothic architecture. A lot of people thought gothic architecture was pretty spooky, and some people started, in the Victorian era, to write spooky novels about spooky things which often took place in spooky settings like gothic cathedrals. Thus the terms "gothic novel" and "gothic literature" were coined to describe these stories. And a "goth" has become someone who reads too many of said stories.
Goth has also been connected with Romanticism; it has, in fact, often been refered to as "new romanticism". I kinda hate to admit this; I thought "The Sorrows of Young Werther" was awful. But the main tenets of Romanticism find pretty direct paralells in goth. But the ideas of man alone in the face of nature/the universe and empathy/intuition above reason find pretty direct correlation.
I'll go with Cockroach for the most part there. The kids people like to call Goth or who even have a big black sticker with a frowny face on their car saying "goth", are NOT true Goths in the sense of the subculture. They have nothing to do with the scene which has been operating since souxie and the Banshees back in 1977.
The term "Goth" comes from gothic rock. Typified by groups such as Christian Death, Morticia (from Minneapolis), Alien Sex Fiend, SPK, Throbbing Gristle (ok they're industrial), Present, Joy Division, and there were quality labels such as Cleopatra, Project, World Serpent, Cuniform, etc. The real Goth subculture is still alive and well but very underground and marylin manson didn't get invited!
It's a real shame that the word "goth" or "metal" is used so frivolously by these kids, the media & radio, it allways makes me cringe when they really have no clue. I don't know what to call the bands that are being called those things these days but "cr ap" comes to mind!
For those who might be interested there is a book out which is a decent general history of Gothic Rock scene:
http://www.amazon.com/exec....s=books
Unfortunately amazon doesn't have a description of the book.
The term "Goth" comes from gothic rock. Typified by groups such as Christian Death, Morticia (from Minneapolis), Alien Sex Fiend, SPK, Throbbing Gristle (ok they're industrial), Present, Joy Division, and there were quality labels such as Cleopatra, Project, World Serpent, Cuniform, etc. The real Goth subculture is still alive and well but very underground and marylin manson didn't get invited!
It's a real shame that the word "goth" or "metal" is used so frivolously by these kids, the media & radio, it allways makes me cringe when they really have no clue. I don't know what to call the bands that are being called those things these days but "cr ap" comes to mind!
For those who might be interested there is a book out which is a decent general history of Gothic Rock scene:
http://www.amazon.com/exec....s=books
Unfortunately amazon doesn't have a description of the book.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Swords & Cockroach: I want to thank you for giving us a historical and cultural rendering of its origins and components. I was wondering if people my (real) age had been born later, would some have adopted a goth attitude and lifestyle. I was too young to be a hippy and possibly too old to be punk. Would hippies have been Goth had they been a decade or two younger?
FlytrapGurl
apple rings.. what more can i say?
FlytrapGurl
apple rings.. what more can i say?
I would consider myself part Goth.
its in my blood, although I dont dress the part, but I will always love the Cure and Peter Murphy.
I used to have a weakness for Goth Women..dated a bunch of them, wonderfull women one and all, but always a bit messed up..
beware of any woman who spent her highschool years listening to the Smiths!
maybe I just loved to photograph them..so beautiful.. *sigh*..
anyway!
I have always found Goths to be very nice and cool people..
im just a big fan of the whole Goth thing..
"Goth God" on Joan of Arcadia is, to me, your classic Goth.
"Death" of the Endless is also beautifully Goth.
its in my blood, although I dont dress the part, but I will always love the Cure and Peter Murphy.
I used to have a weakness for Goth Women..dated a bunch of them, wonderfull women one and all, but always a bit messed up..
beware of any woman who spent her highschool years listening to the Smiths!
maybe I just loved to photograph them..so beautiful.. *sigh*..
anyway!
I have always found Goths to be very nice and cool people..
im just a big fan of the whole Goth thing..
"Goth God" on Joan of Arcadia is, to me, your classic Goth.
"Death" of the Endless is also beautifully Goth.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Probably some, (granola goths?) but not too many.[b said:
Two things really remove goths from other visible subcultures. One is that goths have no socio-political agenda. They really just want to be left alone (although there is a vague sense of wanting to perpetuate the community, which is what leads to the "fairy goth-mother/father" phenomonon).
The other thing is that goths are united by rather more than the same taste in music and fashion, and as a result are much more likely to get along when they meet, than, say, ravers. So they tend to be more tightly-knit. Or clique-y.
Women in the victorian era used face powder with arsenic in it to keep their skin really pale. The arsenic, of course, caused all sorts of health problems. One of the symptoms was fainting. They called it "the vapors". And that's how fainting couches were invented. There was also a band called the Vapors, but I believe the weren't goth. I liked the Stranglers...they were kind of goth punks in the '70's.
[b said:
Indeed they do/are! When I was running Dark Age Productions record label the few true goth bands I was working with were very much so! Many of the older Goths here don't even use the word anylonger since it's been defiled and they've invented other terms for themselves.
Of course,. even weirder are us dark ambient guys who sit in the dark with our synths and make minimalist, filmscore or millitaristic music! I did my own stuff Cernunnos Woods (primitive ritual) and Sigillum dei Draconis (painful ambient noise) projects from 91 til 98 on both DAP and Cold Meat Industry label (from Sweden). We're so clicy we often don't communicate with other humans one on one - ha ha!
