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Thread: Terrorist attack

  1. #129

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    April,

    You're expecting things to happen way to quickly. That's the problem with this "I want it now" society we live in. We are a couple of years into this thing. Do you think post war Europe had electricity, running water and sewage all up and running within weeks or even years after the end of WW11? It took a decade or more to repair much of the war damage, and that was without radicals continually blowing things up and killing anyone and anything all in the name of "The Religion Of Peace." Unfortunately ,we have probably a minumum of another 3 years of this very pattern. Consider the consequences of just up an pulling out now. Iraq would really descend into an abyss, and what would emerge would probably be a state simmilar to Iran.

    JJ

  2. #130

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    Jason,

    You answered exactly NONE of the questions I posed. Of COURSE we can't pull out now, the place would descend into immediate civil war, instead of the one that's 6 months off if we stay there. We broke it, and now we have to fix it. But if we hadn't gone there in the first place.....look at how many of our troops would still be alive, not counting Iraqis who are blown up in car bombings every day. This war was NOT worth the life of 1 American soldier. Iraq was not a threat to us. Period. Even if they had gotten an ICBM...they didn't have had the stuff to put into it! D'oh!~ Your president wanted this war for revenge and for oil. He was planning for it YEARS before it went down. It's that simple, and there is a paper trail to support my view.

    "Everything in life can't be all nice and plesant. Sometimes they have a heavy price to pay, but they are a nessisary evil. "

    Gee, Jason, thank you for letting me know how the world works. I feel so much better now.

    "When you have a giant hornets nest in a tree in your back yard and you go to get rid of it sure your going to sture up the hornets in the process, but its nessisary to get rid of the nest."

    I'd leave it the hell alone, actually. And I DO have one in my back yard, and have had one for years. A Bald-Faced Hornet's nest. I've never been bothered by them. They leave me alone, I leave them alone. Bad analogy to use.

    "What makes you think its going to be any different over in Iraq to have them gain theirs? They are human like you and I and shouldn't they have the right to be free too?"

    The point you're missing is this...ARE they free? can they go where they want, when they want? Can they go to the market without the possibility of being shot or blown up? Can they do a load of laundry whenever they wish? Can they have a glass of water? Will their garbage be taken? Can they go out to dinner and take in a movie, perhaps? Will their air conditioners have the power required to make them work? The answer to all these questions is no.

    The best your side can offer is "they can go to school." Yes they can! If they don't get blown up on the way.
    \"People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution; they don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible,\" Jamie Raskin, to Senator Nancy Jacobs.

  3. #131

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    I would not tell a soldier that fought in that the war that it is not worth 1 soldiers life. I would have to say they would disagree with you. Also we cannot go to the market w/o the possiblity of being shot, but I would still say we are free. Dislike the president all you want but the war has and will continue to make the world a safer and more free place. And like I have said before this war had nothing and I repeat nothing to do with oil. If we wanted it all we had to do was take it. I guarded an Iraqi oil field for 6 months to make sure the terrorist did not blow it up, just to give it back to the Iraqi's when the threat had past. Your dislike for your president has clouded your vision.
    You don't need an iron chest if you have a sharp brain and a silk tongue.


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  4. #132
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    I think it's kind of silly to argue over the condition of Iraq, seeing as things are very different from how they were even two years ago and changing every day, and none of us are there. From what I can cull from independant media and my friends who're deployed, it's not a very happy place, but how good of a grip do we have on what it's like in Iraq on a good day?
    What makes me upset about this war is the way it was executed. For oil or not, Bush was in totally bad form from September 11th on. The Patriot Act and all of the associated legislation that has followed it is a shame to the American way. With each passing day the war seems less about foriegn affairs and more about changing the law, reinterpreting the Bill of Rights and fouling things up for us Americans.
    Regarding superpowers, consider this; China is a superpower. The USSR was a superpower. Would you have had them enforce their views and policies upon the rest of the world whenever they had an oppertunity? Somehow I doubt your answer will be a sincere, "yes." Beyond that, how many superpowers have 'worked out?' I can't think of a single nation or empire that has endured and maintained a large sum of power (although Microsoft may soon prove me wrong,) but I can think of plenty of small nations that keep to themselves, take good care of their own people, and rarely have any trouble. If we're so 'super,' why does it suck to live here? Even if we are a superpower, is that morally, or even economically right? Whatever your morals, you have to see the folly in it. Superpowers breed resentment and unrest, both within and outside their borders. Why do you think the Arab nations are so riled up about the US to begin with? It's not because the Kabbalah says, "Americans are bad." Things will come full circle. The more we take, the more we will be made to give; it's just how things work. The world needs balance.
    Before we worry about telling others what to do, I think it's important that we get our own affairs in order. Why should we be changing other nations when our own has fallen into neglect and squalor? If things are so bad in other countries, then people should move someplace where things are better, or revolt on their own and call for assistance as they see fit.
    We should be worrying about our national debt, our failing school systems, our rising and inaccurately reported unemployment, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. You may think that we can handle all these problems at the same time, but take a look at how much time Congress and the Legislature spend on war and foriegn affairs issues, or our military budget and then compare it to the resources we give to education, social welfare or medical care. Domestic problems are going nowhere fast. What strikes me as particularly tragic is that, as much as we divert towards the war, things don't seem much better there either. Sure, after WW2 it took time to rebuild, but there's a key difference between now and WW2; the liberated countries after WW2 were happy about the foriegn presences.
    Somehow, I feel that Americans have lost their perspective, tucked in the serenity of North America. We don't have much to worry about, and when there is something to worry about, we panic because it's such a rare occurance. We treat our president like a king, regarding his word as the definitive American perspective, rarely looking back on the lessons we learned in building this nation. I mean, give me a break; we can't even burn flags any more. The symbols of our nation have become more important to us than its principles. It's a very depraved state of affairs. The very fact that this topic evokes so much emotion and fervor suggests to me that we're missing the bigger picture.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  5. #133
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    ABSOLUTE POWER CORRUPTS!

  6. #134
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Absolute power does corrupt I agree with that statement. Now to the China being a superpower. That may be so, but our military is far superior to their military by far. Your right we need things to be fixxed over here too. There is so much waiste and corruption over here it isnt funny. We do need more than 2 parties in power. I too dislike voting for the lesser of two evils, but the fact remains we are better off having Bush in office than Gore or Kerry ANY DAY!!! I don't know how I would feel about China trying to push thier viewpoints on other nations seeing as how they are comunist and all. But wait we have those here too they are called hard core democrats. Although thats another story. And April just imagine Saddam getting ahold of the ICBM and then buying one of those missing Russan nuclear weapons. Now there is something scary. not all those have been accounted for. Also do you think we knwo the entire story about Iraq? I can garantee we don't. There is so much classified info on them and other nations its unreal. Sure it would be great if we did know all the answers. Oh and the hornets nest analogy i think was a good one. You must not have children around that nest. Hornets are nasty bugs that bite and sting. I sure wouldn't have any nests around now much less when I have children. I still find it hard to believe that you still think it was better to have the Iraqie people living in such repression because they had running water and other services. That doesn't make you free. Things will get better I promise you. It is just not going to be over night. I happen to agree with Wolf that if we watned the oil we wouldn't be waisting all the resources building the water plants and power plants for the Iraqies. We would have just fixxed the oil wells and pumped the oil and forgot about the Iraqi people. Thats not going on though. I have ranted enough I think. I know its all unoragnized. Sue me. I need to go get back to work. But just one more thing before I go. I really would like to know the HONEST reaction of the folks against the war if Gore was in office and did nothing like I know he would have done after 9-11. Then we would have gotten attacked again from another source that happened to originate from Iraq or another terrorist country. What about if things got like they are over in Isreal where terrorist attacks are happening very very frequently. You would be begging for something to be done about it. BUT NO when something is trying to be done about it we keep complaining about that.

    Have fun And I think Iran or North Korea is next BTW.


    Also not to be ugly but if things are so bad here turn over your citizenship and live someplace else. We have it far better over here than anywhere else in the WORLD. No its not perfect and we have a bunch of laws we shouldn't but its still better than any other nation on earth. Sorry everyone it just burns me up when people say how bad it is here. Granted some folks have it bad, but its nothing like other countries.

    Also Wolf9striker Thank you for serving our country!!!!!
    JB
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  7. #135

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    Ya know, I heard all this same B.S. when I protested the Vietnam war. The war has changed, but all the same rhetoric is still spewing from mouths that do not wish to face the truth. We are in Iraq on a LIE. The Bush Administration perpetrated that lie. They plunged us into debt up to our ears, ignored world opinion, have become inconsiderate bullies, pushing their weight around. Sold those who are unthinking enough a bill of goods about how we need to shove our way of life down these peoples throats so they can be like us, and be free. Which I see less and less of these days. Freedom, that is. This government of ours has insinuated itself into our homes, into our lives, don't allow us to correct our children, but let them run rampant, and then prosecute the parents for things their kids do. Neat trick. In Fresno, an 11 year old girl threw a rock at a kid who was bullying her, and gave him 4 stitches. The police are called, they come in, guns drawn, grab an 11 year old girl, throw her to the ground, Knee in the back, the whole nine yards, and call HER the criminal. THAT ACTION was criminal, but the cops will no doubt get away with it, because the people in this country don't have the sand to stand up for what is right and true. It is the rights of all of us to NOT go to war. To Not want the government to speak for me in this way, and to bring these kids home from where they should never be. Afghanistan is where it is, not Iraq. The man who started it all is still over there. And he is their hero for standing up to the great Satan (thats us by the way) and feel justified because we are in their lands. And it just will not go away. Religious zealots have always been with us and have always been a major thorn. But we allowed the lying government to do it to us again. And filled peoples heads with crap, and being so smart, they ate it up, and now its snapping back. And most of you don't even know it. This isn't over by a long shot, and before you know it, it'll be in your face. And maybe then, you will see the can of worms we, as a society, have become. I am done with this thread, so tear it, me, this post, whatever, up in any way you see fit. B.S. is B.S., and all the words in the world can't change it. War is the largest of all the cans of B.S. And worse when it is sitting on a huge lie.



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  8. #136
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Well it doesn't seem like anyone is going to change any minds here in this lifetime. Opinions are like buttholes everyone has one. I can hardly wait for something of real significance to come to light and prove the point.

    So how is everyone CP's??
    JB
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