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Things that make you think a lil......

There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during January....

In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.

That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.

When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war, state the following .

FDR...led us into World War II.

Germany never attacked us: Japan did.

From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us.

From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us.

Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire.

From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year.

Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.

He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has .....liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.

The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.

We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.

It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick.

It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!


The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

Wait, there's more.......................
WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID
JOHN GLENN ON THE SENATE FLOOR Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2004 11:13 Some people still don't understand why military personnel do what they do for a living. This exchange between Senators John Glenn and Senator Howard Metzenbaum is worth reading. Not only is it a pretty impressive impromptu speech, but it's also a good example of one man's explanation of why men and women in the armed services do what they do for a living.

This IS a typical, though sad, example of what some who have never served think of the military.

Senator Metzenbaum to Senator Glenn: "How can you run for Senate when you've never held a real job?"

Senator Glenn: "I served 23 years in the United States Marine Corps.

I served through two wars. I flew 149 missions. My plane was hit by anti-aircraft fire on 12 different occasions. I was in the space program.

It wasn't my checkbook, Howard; it was my life on the line. It was not a nine-to-five job, where I took time off to take the daily cash receipts to the bank. I ask you to go with me ... as I went the other day... to a veteran's hospital and look those men - with their mangled bodies - in the eye, and tell THEM they didn't hold a job! You go with me to the Space Program at NASA and go, as I have gone, to the widows and Orphans of Ed White, Gus Grissom and Roger Chaffee... and you look those kids in the eye and tell them that their DADS didn't hold a job.

You go with me on Memorial Day and you stand in Arlington National Cemetery, where I have more friends buried than I'd like to remember, and you watch those waving flags.

You stand there, and you think about this nation, and you tell ME that those people didn't have a job? I'll tell you, Howard Metzenbaum; you should be on your knees every day of your life thanking God that there were some men - SOME MEN - who held REAL jobs. And they required a dedication to a purpose - and a love of country and a dedication to duty - that was more important than life itself. And their self-sacrifice is what made this country possible.

I HAVE held a job, Howard! What about you?"

For those who don't remember - During W.W.II, Howard Metzenbaum was an attorney representing the Communist Party in the USA.

Now he's a Senator!
 
Um, there are some pretty silly and obviously wrong "facts" there, but the Sen. Glenn part was good! This piece has been circulating around the internet for a while now. It's hard to pin down who wrote it originally. Many of the facts are just wrong, and the rest are horribly distorted.

For example, tens of thousands of people have died in Iraq, including 107 US military personnel in January alone (not 39), not counting coalition troops, Iraqi security troops, civilians, or insurgents.

Pretty much anything that complains about the "liberal media" can be counted on to be just fabrication. GET BETTER SOURCES!

Still, the Glenn quote is priceless, if he actually said it.

Capslock
 
yeah, and for example germany declared war on us.
 
Capslock, thanks for setting me straight than. i had actually edited out quite a bit of stuff that i thought was just plain pro Bush and served no purpose(also looks like i missed some). wish i had the time to double check stuff like this my self everytime i run across it. the person i got it from is generally fairly facts orriented so i took it as truth, sorry for the trouble.

as far as the media, even though technically i am part of the media, did you know the New York Times is basically skiring the eminant domain issue? do you know the reason? they used eminant domain to get a new office building built for themselves
 
I believe the story about the NYT, rattler. Crazy! It seems that the major media is being corrupted by being, well, major media. They are all huge corporations now (and fewer and fewer of them), and rather than being liberal or conservative, they are corporatist, after profits most of all. Still, there are a lot of good journalists out there, and now the internet has given a voice to a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise be heard, so there is hope!

Capslock
 
I thought that was only a government power? the new york times is part of the government?
confused.gif
confused.gif
 
The government has the power to exercise eminent domain on behalf of the economic gain that would be produced. In other words, for big businesses, which is how it usually shakes out.

The Supreme Court just ruled in favor of the state's right to take property in the community's interests, which are defined as basically providing an economic benefit to the state. This includes jobs, taxes, etc., so it's entirely possible that the NYT made a case to the state of NY that their new building would bring an economic benefit to the people.

Capslock
 
ah. Well that sucks. sounds communist to me.
 
  • #10
(sorry had to run errand)................i have alot of issues with the media in general. #1 on my list is Newspapers supporting candidates. WTF? their job is supposed to be to keep the public honestly informed about both parties, how can they do that if they are openly supporting one candidate?
 
  • #11
yeh germany declared war on un and if we handt moved to attak gemany they would have attaked us, hands-down noquestions aked

The thing that makes me a lil mad (not refering to the original post) are that minorityor christians who insist christains are persecuted by our goverment for not letting tencommandments and stuff be put in federal buildings. my own opinion on that nonwithstanding,  the fact that they like to think of themselves as persecuted is just silly. I mean, theyve been in control since Constantine and people have persecuted many natives religions in the name of christanity and now they say THERE persecuted because thy cant put their stuff up in goverment buildings? Thats sad.
 
  • #12
actully since Germany, Japan, and Italy had signed the Tripartite pact in sept. 1940, creating the Axis powers, when Japan attacked pearl Harbor we were at war with Germany, Italy and Japan, as they were working together, they just wanted differnt parts of the world, Japan in Asia and Germany/Italy in Europe/North Africa/Near East.

Oh and techacally Bosnia never actully attacked anyone, it was the serbs who decided mass genocide sounded like a good way to deal with them. The US was stopping or atleast attempting to stop ethnic cleansing of white people, (as what happens in africa doesnt seem to matter to them, sorry this is just a small side comment that comes from my own opinions and is not meant to offend anyone)

Personally all the information in the orginal piece seems to me to be horribly biased, however the Metzenbaum/Glenn conversation makes it worth reading.
 
  • #13
[b said:
Quote[/b] (rattler_mt @ July 12 2005,7:09)]Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us.
What, so he should have left a madman to slaughter thousands upon thousands and rip a country apart while doing absolutely nothing at all about it? Give me a break....
And if you would like to see what Miloševiæ did in Bosnia, then take a holiday there. Before the war, it was a thriving country with friendly people. Now......well, its unrecodnisible.
People struggle to earn enought to just buy a loaf of bread.
Thousands perished as they escaped from the country.
Many buildings lie in ruin. They cant be re-built because the country is just too poor. Corruption is rampant and the police is poorly trained, if a crime is commited more then half the time the police do absolutely nothing.
Muslim Bosnians and Christian/Catholic Bosnians hate each other, a very good example is my home town, Mostar, in which Muslims live on one side of the river and the Christians/Catholics live on the other.
Before the war there were no such divides.

Now imagine what it would be like if the US and all the other countries didnt help Bosnia. A lot worse then it is now, I tell you.
 
  • #14
as far as the whole christian thing, this was posted on another forum titled "Confused Yet?"

If you have the ten commandments in your courtroom, you lose your job?
You rip a page out of the Koran, you lose your job?

If you burn the US Flag, it is freedom of speech but if you desecrate
the koran it is criminal.

If a crime is committed to a minority, it is a HATE crime requiring
harsher sentencing. However if 19 people murder 3000, you need to learn
to understand them and it really wasn't their fault?

If you decapitate a US contractor who is trying to rebuild your country,
it is troubling. If you humiliate a detainee who is intent on killing
you, it is criminal and you should go to jail?

A teacher can discuss about the muslim religion and the Koran in public
schools to promote understanding but that same teacher will be fired if
she/he discusses christianity??


on the Africa comment, remember the whole Somalia incident? that whole train wreck happened cause we went in following the UN rules of engagement. had we been allowed to just take the bad guys out instead of "not firing unless fired on" the whole incident would have been alot quicker and alot fewer of our armed forces would have been killed. the genocide would have been stopped
 
  • #15
Starman,
I had the pleasure of visiting Mostar before the war; it's a beautiful place! They had such a good thing going in the former Yugoslavia. It could have been a tourist paradise and the people could have prospered. It's too bad people let stupid religious and ethnic differences literally ruin their lives and destroy their homes. It's all so senseless!

Rattler: Hate crime laws apply to everyone, not just minorities. Also, teachers can discuss any religion, including Christianity, but they cannot teach any of them as true or official. Desecrating the Koran is not a crime. And the Ten Commandments in the courtroom violates the Constitution by giving that Christian doctrine a veil of official sanction. None of that is really too confusing.

Capslock
 
  • #16
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Capslock @ July 13 2005,1:16)]Starman,
I had the pleasure of visiting Mostar before the war; it's a beautiful place! They had such a good thing going in the former Yugoslavia. It could have been a tourist paradise and the people could have prospered. It's too bad people let stupid religious and ethnic differences literally ruin their lives and destroy their homes. It's all so senseless!
What you saw was the old Mostar in the height of its glory.....its not like that anymore and it will never be like that again. All because of one madman and his greed for conquest and power. Im glad the US stopped him when they did, otherwise lord knows what he would have done
 
  • #17
lol Capslock while your points are technically true. in practice they arent. i have seen plenty of stories of teachers getting fired for discussing Christianity(its public funded and some idiot parents bring up idiotic lawsuits). on desicrating tohe Koran, look how much trouble a few soldiers have gotten into. and you tell me its not against the law? while it may not be writen as such they still get punished. i have seen all hell break loose for idea of burning the UN flag(i would torch it to if i had one) but burning the USA flag is freedom of speach(i believe it is)? what is written law and what makes it through the court room today are two completely different things.
 
  • #18
oh and on the Ten Commandments, while i am not christian and i have serious problems with that religion. i would rather see the ten commandments displayed than alot of other stuff that is allowed. for the most part its ideals are spot on with or without christianity
 
  • #19
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If you decapitate a US contractor who is trying to rebuild your country,
it is troubling. If you humiliate a detainee who is intent on killing
you, it is criminal and you should go to jail?
who is intent on killing you? says who? Yes if you do what they did then it's criminal and you SHOULD go to jail. Do you not think they should be punished?
And c'mon, as if the US just let the terrorists who decapitate people walk around as if nothing had happened.
 
  • #20
Rattler, while there may be individual cases that are wrongly handled, for the most part, the law is pretty clear. On the discussion of Christianity, we have to be careful to separate that from teaching Christianity. They are different, and the latter is specifically prohibited by the Constitution (teaching ANY religion is a violation. There is no law targeting Christianity specifically.) However, teaching about religions, including comparatively, is not prohibited. The priciple is clear: the government is to give no special sanction to any religion, or imply that any religion or religions are official. I'd like to see any links to cases where a teacher is fired just for discussing Christianity, and not for prosyletizing.

The soldiers who got in trouble got in trouble for a lot more than desecrating the Koran. That was just a part of a whole prisoner abuse scandal, and the part about the Koran is more about how it inflames the whole Muslim world and is just unprofessional conduct.

Finally, burning ANY flag is protected free speech. People can whine and complain all they want, but it is protected whether it's the UN flag, the flag of Japan, or the American flag. There is no double standard there.

OH, and on the 10Cs; the main case involved Judge Roy Williams who deliberately posted them to assert Christian principles as the ones driving this country. This is specifically what is prohibited by the Consittution. Sure, some of them are universal principles that are contained in law, but there are also Commandments about having no God before the Christian God, no graven images, and worshipping idols. These things have no place in a secular society like the US.

Again, there will be cases where people get it wrong, and go overboard, and generally screw it up. But these are the principles behind these policies, and they are good ones, imo.

Capslock
 
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