Bees

[TheAlphaWolf]

Quote[/b] ]I disagree with both him and you on the suggestion that evolution and religion are inherently incompatible

I had never heard of him (or was he that guy mentioned in the "was darwing wrong?" issue of the nat. geo. magazine?) I'll see if I can get one of his books.
I don't think RELIGION is inherently incompatible with evolution (I don't see how buddhism (sp) contradicts evolution) but that christianity is, unless you totally twist everything the bible says. Yeah, I've heard all the rationalizing they've done about a "day" meaning a period of time and not just 24 hours, blah blah, but I don't buy it.

oh and about the bees, the book said that: "native North American bees do not have barbed stingers and may therefore sting more than once". I'm guessing not all NA bees are solitary, so it's not because of that.

 

[Zongyi_Yang]

Speaking of evolution, have any of you read the book
Evolution : The Triumph of an Idea by Carl Zimmer?
At the end of the book, he describes the feud between creationist and evolution. Although its not my idea of a great ending in such an informative book, it is a very interesting read.

Heres 3 quotes someone got from the book on Amazon.com. Its about the authors defence of evolution;
1) "The scientific method does not claim that events can have only natural causes but that the only causes that we can understand scientifically are natural ones. As powerful as the scientific method may be, it must be mute about things beyond its scope. Supernatural forces are, by definition, above the laws of nature, and thus beyond the scope of science (p. 332)." And 2) "When microbiologists study an outbreak of resistant tuberculosis, they do not research the possibility that it is an act of God. When astrophysicists try to figure out the sequence of events by which a primordial cloud condensed into our solar system, they do not simply draw a big box between the hazy cloud and the well-formed planets and write inside it, `Here a miracle happened.' When meteorologists fail to predict the path of a hurricane, they do not claim that God's will pushed it off course (p. 333)." And finally 3) "Science cannot simply cede the unknown in nature to the divine. If it did, there would be no science at all. As University of Chicago geneticist Jerry Coyne puts it, `If the history of science shows us anything, it is that we get nowhere by labeling our ignorance `God'`(p. 333)."

It's a great book

. Zongyi

 

[Finch]

Oyr essential nutrients and minerals come from the earth itself and are recycled. the sun provides the easiest energy to fuel the life precesses, but the sun does not give essential chemicals or nutrients, they come from the rocks themselves as they are broken down by wethering. Bactereal waste is reaialy absorbed by other living things, including other bacteria. if this were not so, then we would be up to our wastes in it by now.

Alpha: the vast majority of our bees are solitary or loosly colonial. those the do form colonies make small ones. The major hive-producing bees are introductions.

 

[Zongyi_Yang]

Ok, you win for now, but I wont believe that life can exist without the sun until I see life on other planets deep undergound or deep underwater that is devoid of surface organisms dependent on the sun

. Zongyi

 

[Finch]

how about the life-forms 1 mile beneith the ocean floor?

 

[cplantlover2]

personally I agree with Alpha wolf on the whole religion and evolution thing.

 

[herenorthere]

People evolved and religion is almost as universal in humans as hands with opposable thumbs.  So maybe it's useful too.  Perhaps it's a manifestation of a genetically hard-wired "follow-the-leader" thing.  People who have it should be more willing to do what they're told, especially if it's wrapped up in some religious or patriotic hocus pocus.

Although it's hard to fathom these days, imagine if those people have leaders who tell them to do the right thing.  They'd be able to create a system of irrigated agriculture and grain storage and road networks.  They'd have much better reproductive success than people around them who don't have that genetic tendency.  Unfortunately, it's also easy for them to be mesmerized by bad leaders who talk up their great destiny and obligation to control more and more distant people and resources.

 

[Finch]

im curently concentrating on turning the right- to life thing back in their faces with citing endangerd species. dont they 'ave a right to live too? Peliminary report: 70% chance of considering and agreeing amoung right-to life supporters.

 

[TheAlphaWolf]

to many of them the only life that matters is Homo sapiens life... even if it's just their cells. All the others- well they're less important than a bunch of cells.