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The oil industry discussion

  • #21
Is it really worth not filling up? Fill up today at $2.75/gal or tommorow at $2.80. Plus if there is a sudden $1.00 jump, you already have it... Maybe it don't matter... But I like to know I bought all the gas I could at the current "Cheap" price. I am currently filling up when I hit 1/4 tank. (about every 4 days) (Driving a '94 Chevy S-10 4X4 I get adverage 18 MPG?)
To me, it seems gas has been under priced here in the USA for some time. And it is Due to increase. As much as I hate to say it. Where do I get this from? Well, I recall other countries paying rediculous prices for gas for a while already... Admit it, it was gonna happen eventually.

Also, I have found a web site that is supposedly to help us protect ourselves. So take the time and fill it out.
http://gaswatch.energy.gov/
Andrew
 
  • #22
i was paying approximatly $3.50US/gallon in Canada. Alberta was about $.50 cheaper per gallon than Sask. about the only reason you pay more in Canada is taxes. you figure alot of the European countries that have higher gas prices do not have the oil reserves we do in the midwest and western US and in the Gulf of Mexico.
 
  • #23
I was in Canada two weeks ago and canadian television ran several stories on Canadians driving just over the border to fill up. It almost seems worth it for me to do the same thing into New Jersey.
confused.gif


~ Brett
 
  • #24
Just one important nugget of information for everyone out there (and feel free to do the research, everyone in the world is so gung-ho to swallow whatever garbage the popular media spews at them that it might actually do some people some good to do a little research.)

If you take inflation into account the price of oil by the barrel (and consequentially gas at the pump) is cheaper now that it was in the 1980.

Is there anything else our society is so dependent upon that you can say that about?

I also have to say that I have very little respect for all the people who throw fits over gas prices and then happily pay $1 for a 16oz bottle of spring water (for those of you who don't like math that works out to $8/gallon.
smile_k_ani_32.gif
) Now can anyone offer me a rational explaination for that?!?!
 
  • #25
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I also have to say that I have very little respect for all the people who throw fits over gas prices and then happily pay $1 for a 16oz bottle of spring water

very good point and your also right on the inflation thing. however if gas does hit $3 a gallon its going to put a serious crimp on my travel. course than i have to pay to get stuff shipped in. guess im a bit screwed either way.
 
  • #26
I was taught by my meteorlogy professor at uni that water vapour is the number one factor causing the actual "warming" in atmospheric warming. It's as much (if not more) a greenhouse gas as CO2, which many of us tend to single out as the culprit.
 
  • #27
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Pyro @ Aug. 31 2005,10:41)]If you take inflation into account the price of oil by the barrel (and consequentially gas at the pump) is cheaper now that it was in the 1980.
This is along the same lines of what I was saying. It is time. Does it suck? Sure, we want everything to be as cheap as possible. But fact is, it can't be and won't be always cheep.
 
  • #28
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I also have to say that I have very little respect for all the people who throw fits over gas prices and then happily pay $1 for a 16oz bottle of spring water

Thank you very much Pyro.  I really love those guys in their fancy outfits, jogging down the beach carrying a plastic bottle of eight buck a gallon water.  Later that day they stroll into their favorite watering hole, order a scotch and soda at $4.50 a shot (How much per gallon does that work out to?) and then complain to the cute little girl at the bar how much it costs to fill up his Cadillac Escalade.
 
  • #29
Of course water vapor is a significant greenhouse gas and the effects of water and clouds are major complications in greenhouse gas modelling.  But CO2 increased by ~20% from 1959 - 2004 (see http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/mlo145e_thrudc04.pdf).  You can see about 400 000 years of record at http://cdiac.esd.ornl.gov/trends/co2/graphics/vostok.co2.gif and it shows quite a cycle.  But you'll notice even the bottom of the Hawaii chart is beyond the scale of the long term Antarctic data and we're almost 30% higher than the highest measurement in that 400 000 year record.

We're performing a global ecological experiment without any idea of what might happen and that's really stupid.  If $3 gas shakes people up a little, I say let's go for $5 and more and try to turn this thing around.  Our self-indulgence in all kinds of resources has already set up a chaotic global sociopolitical experiment.  Expensive energy can only send it skittering off in new and unpredictable directions.  But we and our fellow passengers on earth can probably survive that.
 
  • #30
Something that struck me in the UK was that their big cars were barely as big as our small cars. Unfortunately I haven't really travelled anywhere else to gain more perspective on little things like that, but it was pleasantly jarring.

"It's not more than you need, just more than you're used to." is one of those telling slogans about our current state. Tunnel-visioned people try to push us into excess to make their profits grow... we follow like lemmings... and we pay for it more and more every day ecologically, psychologically, etc.
 
  • #31
yah know Bruce if diesel hits $4 or $5 a gallon your living in a bad place in the US. your bread will get darn expensive. at $5 a gallon its gong to be very darn expensive to plant and harvest wheat and other grains. there are more ppl in the US making $20,000 a year and under than most of you realize and $3 a gallon makes a serious dent in the monthly income of those of us out west.
 
  • #32
I didn't say it'll be painless and it certainly won't be. But don't forget the Plains states had a far healthier rural economy when transportation cost a lot more. I'm not saying there's a connection, even though I think there is. But it does show what's possible.
 
  • #33
How about if I through this theory into the mix about global warming. True there is 30% more CO2 in the air than years past, but don't you think all the road ways and concrete jungles add to the heat? Think about it. There used to be trees to absorb the heat. Not any more. Find it interesting that the asfalt black color is hotter than standing in an open field of grass. Then you have the O-zone layer that is suposed to keep out the heat and things. Well its acting as a double edge sword. Its holding in heat now too. Ok so you have all the black tops slowly adding the heat getting hotter and hotter, but the earth is not cooling off as fast as it used to when it was filled with trees and such. I don't discredit the o-zone depleteing chems we add to the air, but this I think is another contributing factor. Also I thought I heard someplace that 1 gallon of hydrogen went 99 miles. The person I heard that from could have gotten it wrong so don't hold me to that one. I would love to own a hydrogen car though. I hate filling the pockets of tha arabs that we buy the oil from. I dislike fueling the 30% profit INCREASE from the oil companies while they steadily increase gasoline prices. I dispise seeing a gas station who paid the low price for the gas they have, but they insist on raising the price of their cheap gas to expencive gas prices. I am furious for stations in Atlanta gouging prices to 5.25 to 6 dollars a gallon for reg gas. Another thing. Even if the hydrogen cars produce water as a byproduct it will not become an abundance. Our bodies constantly produce extra water as a byproduct of cellular respiration. The water we pee out is not only the water we take in, but byproduct water too. Besides we can take the extra water to get more Hydrogen to power the cars. Heck I;m all for self charging bateries. darn I have to get my prototype built. I could be a rich capitalist by now.
 
  • #34
Wait so is the water produced by these hydrogen cars pure like distilled or reverse osmosis water? If that's the case then that would save me more money than the average gas consumer as not only would I be paying for cheaper fuel, but I would no longer have to buy distilled water for my plants. Alright I am sold on hydrogen.
 
  • #36
Another appropriate song:

When the Levee Breaks by Zeppelin

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]If it keeps on rainin’, levee’s goin’ to break,
If it keeps on rainin’, levee’s goin’ to break,
When the levee breaks I’ll have no place to stay.
Mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Lord, mean old levee taught me to weep and moan,
Got what it takes to make a mountain man leave his home,
Oh, well, oh, well, oh, well.
Don’t it make you feel bad
When you’re tryin’ to find your way home,
You don’t know which way to go?
If you’re goin’ down south
They go no work to do,
If you don’t know about chicago.
Cryin’ won’t help you, prayin’ won’t do you no good,
Now, cryin’ won’t help you, prayin’ won’t do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move.
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
All last night sat on the levee and moaned,
Thinkin’ ’bout me baby and my happy home.
Going, go’n’ to chicago,
Go’n’ to chicago,
Sorry but I can’t take you.
Going down, going down now, going down.

The gas station I filled up my car at yesterday in preparation for gouged prices went from $2.95 to $3.35 for regular in New York.

As for global warming:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]-- From Wikipedia --
Global warming is a term used to describe the increase over time of the average temperature of the Earth's atmosphere and oceans.

The scientific opinion on climate change, as expressed by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and endorsed by the national science academies of the G8 nations, is that the average global temperature has risen 0.6 ± 0.2°C since the late 19th century, and that "most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities", most prominently the emission of greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide (CO2). A small minority of qualified scientists contest the view that humanity's actions have played a significant role in increasing recent temperatures. Uncertainties do exist regarding how much climate change should be expected in the future, and a hotly contested political and public debate exists over what actions, if any, should be taken in light of global warming.

And here's a relevant picture from Wikipedia:



They also have a major article on the attribution of recent climate change.

Hope that helps.

~ Brett
 
  • #37
Whoops - messed up my posting - sorry

~ Brett
 
  • #38
maybe now I can convince Dan to buy a horse. It is to the point where it would be cheaper to have a horse than a car.

Board for a horse: $325/mo
Regular maintenance(vaccinatons, worming, shoeing)avg. about $75/mo.

Car, 1997 Ford Taurus. Gasoline: $300/mo
insurance: $60/mo
Regular maintenance: avg. $50/mo.
 
  • #39
If that horse is good for 2,000 miles per month or whatever number you're racking up there, go for it.
 
  • #40
I wonder if the rising gas prices will lead to more people being interested into more fuel efficient vehicles.

There are some VERY viable options that can save a bundle on gas available right this very moment.

Diesel cars. Check out the VW Jetta Turbodiesel. Stylish, powerful enough to get around, and excellent MPG. I haven't researched this enough to be able to tell you the exact MPG. I also am not sure how they fair in terms of pollution.

Motorcycles. Motorcycles get anywhere from 30 to 70 mpg depending on what type you buy. The very affordable Kawasaki Ninja 250R *EASILY* gets 70mpg when babied. And you'd be hardpressed to get it under 50mpg, even on a racetrack. $3000 brand new. Motorcycles also have the neat advantage of being faster than most cars. The motorcycle I have is worth about $600, and does 0-60 in about 5 seconds, while getting 50mpg (and it's oooold). Not even a sportbike. The obvious downside is that you are not protected in a steel cocoon every time you hurtle down the highway. Someone yacking on their cellphone inattentively poses a real threat to your continued livelihood. Motorcycles also require training and riding gear.

Scooters. Scooters can get even better mileage than most motorcycles. They have the advantage of being a little easier to learn to operate, along with a theoretically less exposed seating postition. Their downside is that they can easily cost as much as a motorcycle, and not all of them can go highway speeds. Also some people feel silly riding on them.

All of these solutions require some kind of sacrifice- although I'm not well versed on the cons of diesel automobiles. If you're serious about spending less on gas, it's certainly do-able! I'm actually considering selling my automobile.
 
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