What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The oil industry discussion

  • #41
Yeah, I knew someone who had a diesal jetta, and they were unimpressed by hybrids because the already got at least that many mpg with the jetta.

I just googled it... they get around 50mpg.

One of the reasons diesal hasn't really caught on is because the engines are very loud (one of the reasons you can hear a truck idling from a block away). I wonder how the jetta sounds.
 
  • #42
diesel is more polluting than gas on whats coming out the tail pipe but if your burning half as much deisel as gas does it even out? im not sure, someone else will have to answer that.
 
  • #43
A couple points on diesel, brought to you by Wikipedia.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Diesel engines are more efficient than gasoline/petrol engines of the same power (by approx. 15%), resulting in lower fuel consumption.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Diesel engines can produce black soot from their exhaust. This consists of unburned carbon compounds. Modern diesel engines catch the soot in a particle filter, which when saturated is automatically regenerated by burning the particles. Other problems associated with the exhaust gases (nitrogen oxide, sulfurous fumes) can be mitigated with further investment and equipment.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The lack of an electrical ignition system greatly improves the reliability. The high durability of a diesel engine is also due to its overbuilt nature (see above) as well as the diesel's combustion cycle, which creates less-violent changes in pressure when compared to a spark-ignition engine. Unfortunately, due to the greater compression force required and the increased weight of the stronger components, starting a diesel engine is a harder task. More torque is required to push the engine through compression.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Diesel engines can operate on a variety of different fuels, depending on configuration, though the eponymous diesel fuel derived from crude oil is most common. Good-quality diesel fuel can be synthesised from vegetable oil and alcohol. Biodiesel is growing in popularity since it can frequently be used in unmodified engines, though production remains limited. Petroleum-derived diesel is often called "petrodiesel" if there is need to distinguish the source of the fuel.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The vast majority of modern heavy road vehicles (trucks), ships, large-scale portable power generators, most farm and mining vehicles, and many long-distance locomotives have diesel engines. However, in the U.S. they are not as popular in passenger vehicles as they are in Europe as they are perceived as being heavier, noisier, of having performance characteristics which makes them slower to accelerate, and of being more expensive than petrol vehicles. In addition, before the mandatory reduction of sulphur in on-road diesel fuel to 15 parts per million, which will start at 15 Oct 2006 in the U.S. (1 June 2006 in Canada), diesel fuel used in North America has higher sulphur content than the fuel used in Europe, effectively limiting diesel use to industrial vehicles.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]In Europe, where tax rates in many countries make diesel fuel much cheaper than petrol, diesel vehicles are very popular and newer designs have significantly narrowed differences between petrol and diesel vehicles in the areas mentioned.

Hope that helps!

~ Brett
 
  • #44
Also on topic of optional "fuels" what about E85? First, what is E85?
-E85 is the term for motor fuel blends of 85 percent ethanol and just 15 percent gasoline. E85 is an alternative fuel as defined by the U.S. Department of Energy. Besides its superior performance characteristics, ethanol burns cleaner than gasoline; it is a completely renewable, domestic, environmentally friendly fuel that enhances the nation's economy and energy independence.
Why would you want to use this stuff? Well, as you read here, it's cleaner and made in the usa and such... What about the fact that Right now down the street I can buy it for 2.15 a gallon compared to 3.09 for gas.
Now who can use it? If you have a newer vehicle, it MIGHT be compatable already! It's called "Flexible fuel vehicles" check this site for more info and see if your car is compatable, and if so- where you can buy E85!
Andrew
 
  • #45
One downer - from good ol' Wikipedia -
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Because ethanol contains less energy per gallon than gasoline does, fuel economy is normally negatively impacted by about 5 to 15%. Thus, more E85 is needed to do the same work, but this is offset by the lower cost of the fuel.

~ Brett
 
  • #46
Yes, that was mentioned on the site given. But not from lack of energy produced. E85 fuel is actually a higher octain fuel meaning it takes a higher compression to fully take advantage of it's power. (for example high performance cars run a much higher compression and octain fuel) But since the vehicles today are made to run on E85 AND gas they cannot give the engins the higher compression needed to take advantage of the high octane. Further info, here is a quote from that site where ford ffv's actually have a INCREASE in HP.

Ethanol has less energy content than gasoline. However, E85 also has a much higher octane (ranging from 100 to 105) than gasoline. FFVs are not optimized to E85, so they experience a 5% to 15% drop in fuel economy. This will vary based on temperature and driving conditions.

For comparison purposes, aggressive driving habits can result in a 20% loss and low tire pressure can reduce mileage by 6%. Research indicates Ford FFVs experience a 5% horsepower gain on E85. The range of any particular vehicle is dependent on the size of the fuel tank and driving habits. Current Ford Taurus FFVs have an 18-gallon fuel tank and will normally travel 350 miles between refuelings.

Andrew
 
  • #47
Sounds interesting but it doesn't help with my 2001 Camry. I'll have to look into it more when people start really talking about alternatives to gas.

~ Brett
 
  • #48
Doesn't help with my '94 4X4 S-10 or '01 Saturn L-300 either
smile_n_32.gif
lol
 
  • #49
no but your older vehicles should be able to run on 15% ethonal 85% gasoline which should help you out a bit. i really think biodiesil and ethonal are the way to go and the most practical at this point in time. i know several of the larger towns around me have a pump that has E85 but several smaller ones have pumps with 10-15% ethonal. unfortunatly Wolf Point seems to behind so far and doesnt have either. i am all for hydrogen cars but i think they should really start in the big cities/large metro areas like the northeast and south Cali and really push the E85 and similar in the rural areas, where the hydrogen pumps will start filtering to if the big cities jump on board. i think this 1-2 punch is the best bet to getting us on the right track.
 
  • #50
I'm glad this whole gas crisis is happening, honestly. The masses don't really start to care until their wallets are affected.

We know we need to get off oil. We know it's inevitable. Now finally there's something to make the average person really want it.

I know the prices are making people suffer, but it's nothing compared to the suffering from another decade of public complacency on this. In the end this is a blessing.
 
  • #51
I agree with endparentheseis but it's too bad where the extra money's going.
 
  • #52
I definitely agree with endparenthesis, as well, It's human nature working it's magic. It's only a problem if it's inconvenient for the average voter(AV) immediately (The AV doesn't care that much about global warming, However when, in the near future, they walk outside in the middle of winter and recieve a severe sunburn within 2 minutes due to lack of ozone you bet it'll be a problem). The human race unfortunately is like a child. It learns best by self-inflicted discipline. (When a child touches a stove that's hot it gets burnt and adds "don't touch hot stoves" to it's memory base) same with our culture (When gas prices spike, and we lose money, we think ecologically and conserve a little more) It's a vicious flaw in the way are culture works. We are very short-sighted.

I wish there was a moderately sized island out there somewhere that wasn't claimed by any country that people could live on and not pay ridiculous taxes so that presidents could sip martinis and start pointless wars. Wouldn't that be nice... God I hate politics...

That was a nice blurb:)

Z
 
  • #53
well after going to the gas station today im going to have to say our national "fuel shortage" doesnt exist and the prices are rediculous. all gas stations in town only have 1 grade of gas. i live 80 miles from a refinery that gets ALL of its crude from Alberta, Montana and Wyoming. the refinery is working at full capacity. it is also one of 4 refineries with in a 4 hour drive, all having no problems and running fine. this is a bunch of bull. the Gulf is opening back up and tankers are off loading oil. WTF?
 
  • #54
The petroleum industry has everyone wrapped around its finger, but too many people have been hypnotized into believing the problem is that the EPA won't allow new refineries and that environmentalists don't allow drilling in refuges and parks.
 
  • #55
I own a substantial amount of petroleum company stock.  Use more gas. Don't be messin' with my income.
I love it when the price goes up.
biggrin.gif
 
  • #56
Hey - Lauderdale's got a good point. Why not turn this whole situation around. Invest in oil and profit from the gouging which you can then re-invest into gas for your car. You'd still probably come out with a big profit.

Exxon-Mobile in the last 2 days:
temp3ar.jpg



~ Brett
 
  • #58
Here is a thought. Back it the 70's gas rationing did have an effect on the oil companies. I have gotten many emails naming a "boycott" date where we are supposed to not buy gas to send the companies a message. This never worked and will never work because sooner or later we have to buy gas. If not on the day of the embargo then a couple of days later. However, certain gas companies do not receive their oil from the Middle East. If the average consumer patronizes only those companies that don't get oil from the Middle East, then a real embargo is possible. I got a chain type email with this as the subject. I haven't sent it on, because if most are like me they would ignore it. If anyone is interested in joining this movement, send me an email: tamlindd@yahoo.com and I'll forward it to you. To my mind, this makes sense and is worth a go. The companies that sell non-Middle East gasoline are:


Citgo......................0 barrels
Sunoco...................0 barrels
Conoco..................0 barrels
Sinclair.................0 barrels
BP/Phillips............0 barrels
Hess.......................0 barrels
ARC0....................0 barrels

The message continues:

All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing.

But to have an impact, we need to reach literally millions
of gas buyers. It's really simple to do.

Now, don't wimp out at this point.... keep reading and I'll
explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!!

I'm sending this note to about thirty people.

If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) .. and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers !!!!!!!

If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten
friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted!
If it goes one level further, you guessed it .. THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!!

Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all that take?

I know that these schemes often have their critics, I have always been one of them, but this one I am going to support by not continuing to buy from companies marketing Middle East oil.

I agree that this is probably a good wake up call, but I greatly resent what I feel is manipulation by the gas merchants to milk the situation. I guess I am a mad cow.
 
  • #59
the major obsitcle for hydrogen energy is the problems and high cost of mass-producing the hydrogen...
 
Back
Top