My terrarium idea

[B Rob]

I was wondering if I could use lava rock as a substate... I have no intentions of growing anything in it, except maybe some moss on top of it. It's purely for aesthetics and making it super easy to clean/never having to change it. Here's my plan...

I'm gunna use a false bottom to take care of humidity. So... 2" pvc cuttings, and egg crate... Then I'm gunna use fiberglass window screen, an inch of charcoal to keep it fresh, another screen, and then a 1/2 inch of sand. Then I'm gunna take black pcv piping (6") and cut it just a wee tiny bit longer than the pot I'm using for the individual plants. (This is so I can remove pots w/o the rocks caving in and having to dig new holes for the pots, this will make life nice) I'll dig these into the sand a little to keep it secure. (Pretty much the whole purpose of the sand... maybe it'll have some sort of water filtering property?) And then I'll fill up to where the pots will be with lava rock. Then I'll fill it up with water.

I think it'll look nice, the dark rocks should contrast the plants nicely. And a little moss will make it look even prettier. Also... if I want a certain plant to sit higher, or stay drier, I can cut a longer piece of pvc and fill the bottom of it with sand, lava rock, or anything to take up space really.

Any thoughts, comments, and idea will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys.

 

[thbjr]

what size terrarium were you looking to build?

 

[B Rob]

I'm probably gunna start with a 10 gallon. Maybe a 15 high so I can leave some sars in.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

What about dormancy? And Sarrs will eventually get large enough not to fit in a 15 high.

 

[B Rob]

The whole purpose of having the pvc pipe is too be able to take the pots out of the gravel w/o making a mess. So when something needs to go into dormancy I can take the pot out and move to somewhere it can be dormant, even if it's my refrigerator. Same deal with a plant gettng too tall. I can take the pot out and place it outside if the conditions are suitable and I can take care of it. And if not I'll give to someone who can.

When plants are removed, I can grow new plants in the existing spot.

 

[brisco225]

Where are you from? can you grow them outdoors?

 

[scottychaos]

The whole purpose of having the pvc pipe is too be able to take the pots out of the gravel w/o making a mess. So when something needs to go into dormancy I can take the pot out and move to somewhere it can be dormant, even if it's my refrigerator.

That idea wont work for dormancy..
because the plants need to be dormant BEFORE they go in the fridge..
you cant just pluck them out of the terrarium and stick them in the fridge..they will die if you do.
they wont get the proper dormancy cues in the terrarium..here is a quote from...myself!
(this is handy! I have quoted this several times now!

they remain outside ALL Summer, and then into Autumn..
I keep them outdoors all through August, September and into October, as days and nights
gradually fall into the 60's, 50's, 40's.. (15..10...5C)

I wont even consider bringing them inside unless its going to fall below freezing
or if there is a heavy frost forecast for overnight.
This way, nature creates a natural dormancy for me!
I dont have to do a thing about "making them go dormant"..
they go dormant naturally through all of late summer and into autumn..
then, by the time they are ready for the fridge,
they are already fully "asleep" and are ready to continue that sleep in the fridge..

Please note that the fridge does not cause or create the dormancy!
it simply maintains the dormancy that was already started naturally by keeping the plants outdoors all season..the plants need to be already dormant before they go in the fridge.

In my opinion, VFT's and Sarracenia should never be grown indoors or especially in terrariums..
the climate inside a terrarium is just all-wrong for them..
the climate is fine.. for a few months...but VFTs and Sarrs need very different climates at different times of year..

Keeping VFTs and Sarrs in a terrarum is the same as trying to grow maple tree bonsai in a terrarium..
you can replicate June, July and August ok in a terrarium..sunny and warm..but what about the other 9 months of the year?

Maple trees need a gradually warming spring to come out of dormancy, a gradually warmer and sunnier summer, a gradually cooler and darker autumn, then a cold and dark winter to be fully dormant.

...cycle repeats...

so do VFTs and Sarracenia.
its not an option..its a necessity.

If you grow a maple tree indoors it will die within a year...the non-changing environment of a terrarium will also eventually kill a VFT.

VFTs need it warm and REALLY sunny in the summer..DIRECT sunlight..
where can you find that? outdoors in the summer!
Nature provides the perfect light for free..
then you need gradually decreasing photoperiod and gradually decreasing temps from summer into autumn..
where can you find that? outdoors..again nature does all the work for us.

The only tricky season for those of us in the Northern states is the winter..Spring, Summer and Autumn are a breeze..just keep the plants outdoors April - October.
but the plants need a COOL winter..the winter of South Carolina..
but winters in the northern states are too severe and will kill them if the plants are left outdoors..

If you have a cool basement or attic, or a garage that stays in the 40's (4-10C) all winter, thats fine
for dormancy..or ideally, if you live in the southern US where winters are mild, just leave your plants outside 24/7/365! but right now I lack any of those conditions..hence, they are going in the fridge!

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/cp/page2.html

IMO, (and in the opinion of just about everyone who has grown VFTs and Sarracenia for more than one year) VFTs and Sarracenia should NEVER be grown in terrariums..it just doesn't work...it doesnt work because you cant fight Nature. you must give her what she wants, or your plants will die.

Scot

 

[B Rob]

Way to ruin peoples dreams scotty!!!!


haha jk.

I appreciate the comment and the dormany thing makes sense. I didn't even think about that. But I'll try setting the lights to replicate what's going on outside. During the summer I'll put em outside and let them work into dormancy. And if that doesn't work... I suppose I'll leave out plants that need a dormancy till I can set up a bog. Aren't there tropical sars I could use? (I'm at a friends and savage gardens at my house)

If not I'll get over it. I'll just have a tank of sundews and pings or something. I don't really care what's in the tank, I just want a little decoration in my room as well as some experience with cp's.

Do any of you have thoughts about filling the whole tank with rocks?

 

[Jefforever]

If the only sarrs you grow are Purpurea...your setup will do just fine. They don't need dormancy.

 

[obregon562]

umm...really? i didn't know that!

You may have better luck with nepenthes, heliamphoras, and other tropicals. I believe our resident forum founder has some neps.

 

[Jefforever]

Yeah, Peter D'Amato grows a giant one in one of his terrariums. The pitchers never die if
the plant doesn't go dormant. If you ever have a chance to visit the San Diego Zoo, you
can see a pretty nice sized plant there. But the rest of their plants are disappointing.

 

[scottychaos]

If the only sarrs you grow are Purpurea...your setup will do just fine. They don't need dormancy.

umm...really? i didn't know that!

Yeah, Peter D'Amato grows a giant one in one of his terrariums. The pitchers never die if the plant doesn't go dormant.

I knew that this was not true..(that S. purpurea does not need dormancy)
but before I simply replied with "thats not true" I thought I would go right to the source!
because people might not believe me..
but maybe they will believe Peter?

So I sent off an email to Peter D'Amato:

Hello Peter,
my name is Scot Lawrence, from Rochester NY.

a post was just made on one of the CP discussion forums, that claims Sarracenia purpurea does NOT need a winter dormancy..and the proof for this statement is said to be..you!

the poster claims that you have been growing a large S. purpurea in a terrarium, for many years, *without* the plant receiving a winter dormancy!
and the plant does not die without a winter dormancy every year.

I am certain this is untrue, and the poster is probably confusing his plants..
it is most likely some other plant in the terrarium.
but before I post a reply, I thought it would make sense to go directly to the source to check the facts!

so do you have any comments about this supposed sleepless purpurea?

thanks,
Scot

Reply from Peter D'Amato:

Hey Scott: I don't participate in many CP forums, so thanks for letting me know of this poster's statement. He states I grow S. purpurea in terrariums year round without a dormancy. Of course this is completely untrue. While even northern S. purpureas retain their leaves in feezes and snow, some people may mistaken believe they are not "dormant", when of course they are and don't produce new pitchers during this rest period. My book The Savage Garden clearly discusses the problems of having temperate plants in terrariums that don't get cold in winter, and lists suggested plants to grow in a variety of indoor and terrarium locations. It would be great if you posted my message on the forum. You can quote me. Thanks again, Scot! Peter D'Amato at California Carnivores.

As the Emperor Joseph, the Musical King would say: "well..there it is"

(I just saw "amadeus" on tv the other day!) great movie..

So perhaps Jeff thought the plant was not dormant because it didnt LOOK dormant?
maybe..
but regardless of how it looks, it is still dormant every winter.
So it is completely untrue to say "They dont need dormancy"
sorry..but all Sarracenia need a winter dormancy.

Sorry for being hard on you Jeff!
you probably just heard it from someone else, who was wrong, and passed on something you believed to be true.
but there is a lot of myth and misinformation in this hobby..especially around dormancy..
and especially around "its fine to grow VFTs and Sarracenia in terrariums"..well..it isnt.

so I consider it necessary to stamp-out incorrect information whenever it is found..to try to keep these kinds of things from spreading.

Way to ruin peoples dreams scotty!!!!


haha jk.

Aren't there tropical sars I could use? (I'm at a friends and savage gardens at my house)

yeah, sorry about ruining your dreams!
but im just the messenger..I didnt make the rules!

and no, there is no such thing as a "tropical Sarr"
all Sarracenia are native to North America, and all require a winter dormancy.

Nepenthes are "tropical" and do not require a winter dormancy..they are very different plants than Sarracenia and need very different conditions. Sarracenia and Nepenthes can not be grown together all year long..the Nepenthes will die if it gets too cold, and the Sarracenia will die if it doesnt get cold enough!

Scot

 

[B Rob]

hmm... thanks to everyone for all the replies... and not to sound ungrateful... but the rocks man... THE FREAKIN ROCKS!!

haha j/k ... but seriously, forget the plants for now, do you think I'll have any problems with the lava rocks?

 

[scottychaos]

hmm... thanks to everyone for all the replies... and not to sound ungrateful... but the rocks man... THE FREAKIN ROCKS!!

haha j/k ... but seriously, forget the plants for now, do you think I'll have any problems with the lava rocks?

I would not use lava rocks..
what are they made of anyway??
how "inert" are they?
hold on..

(Scot heads over to Google)


ok, im back.

http://www.geoponicsinc.com/index_.php?where=menu_14

That page suggests Lava rocks are inert..

well..if you have REALLY pure and clean lava rocks, they would probably be fine for CP use..it doesnt sound like they will leach out any minerals.

personally, I wouldnt risk it...because you really have no way to know how "clean and pure" your particular rocks are..especially lava rocks sold for BBQ grills or something liek that...they could add nasty stuff to your "soil" as water passes over the rocks.

This page:
http://www.birdchannel.com/bird-diet-and-health/bird-care/parrot-supplements.aspx
suggests that lava rock pieces can dissolve in a birds stomach: "If a bird swallows bits of lava rock, it will provide it with some trace minerals — if they dissolve in the gastrointestinal tract — such as iron, magnesium, potassium and sodium. "

dissolving lava rocks would be bad from a CP perspective.
I cant really see them dissolving much though..

here is a discussion on lava rock from CPUK:
http://www.cpukforum.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t22555.html

my opinion - probably fine, but its hard to be 100% confidant of that..
I still wouldnt risk it.

Scot

 

[B Rob]

Thanks Scott, you're a doll. If I can't find good pure lava rock I might just use aquarium gravel to dress the place up a bit. I would think that since it's for fish use, it shouldn't have any mineral content as it would change the ph of the water.