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new terrarium project

jbradt

stretch.... yawn...
I was inspired by Av's thread about his heli set up, particularly the self watering system. So this weekend I started thinking about how to incorporate it into a glass terrarium. So this is a spare 10g aquarium I had laying around.

I was a little worried about cutting holes in the glass for the tubing, but it turned out to be pretty easy. Dremmel makes a bit for that. :hail: So I cut 3 holes. One for the input from the pump, two for drainage. I hadn't planned from the beginning to have two drainage holes, but I had to reassess after a little poor planning. And it worked out for the best anyway.

Here's a couple of really bad pics...

6329099855_d94e060a93_b.jpg

6330211732_78fa58c8aa_b.jpg


The input line is the same size as both drain tubes together, so it was pretty easy using the flow control to find a nice equilibrium. The way it's set up now, it will keep the tank flooded to a 2" depth (give or take a little) indefinitely.

At this point, this tank is practice for a larger project I'm hoping to do in the future. But I'd like to be able to use it for smaller heli's or even for germination purposes if I can get the design nailed down.

So the next step is to figure out how best to keep the humidity high. I'm open to any ideas here. At this point, I'm planning to use a combination of plastic egg-crate and LFS with a small fan. This has proven to work for me based on the terrariums I have now, so there must be a way to adapt it.

Thanks for looking! As always, I'm open to any questions/concerns/feedback.
 
You could keep a slew of pygmy dews in there for a long time. Looks like a fun project. What's the Dremel attachment you used called?
 
Nice xbox.....oh, and nice setup ;)
 
You could keep a slew of pygmy dews in there for a long time. Looks like a fun project. What's the Dremel attachment you used called?
I hadn't even thought of that... hmmm...
I don't remember what it was called. It was basically a 1/4" hole saw. On the package it specified that it was for glass and tile. It actually came with a little bottle of lubricant. I also successfully used a diamond tip cutting tool, and a regular grinding stone. However they're a little more delicate of an operation, and I wasted the grinding stone... so I can say those ways work too, but they're far from ideal. the hole saw bit cost $25, but it was way easier.
Nice xbox.....oh, and nice setup ;)
LOL... that xbox is hooked up to a 6' movie screen and projector :0o:

and thanks!

---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

Thanks, Paul!
 
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Congrats on jumping in with both feet.... as you see it takes a bit of experimentation. You may even find that some variant of the system is what works best in your application...

You can put a flow control in the pump line to help you balance things if you need. Also, my pump has an adjustment on its inlet to do the same thing.

I hope you see it through, it has been an amazing simple solution for me. I cant express how much it has helped.

Does your tank drain like it should?

(FWIW.... 2x line diameter = 4x line area, 3x line diamter = 9x line area etc.)

Very nice work
Av
 
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Congrats on jumping in with both feet.... as you see it takes a bit of experimentation. You may even find that some variant of the system is what works best in your application...

You can put a flow control in the pump line to help you balance things if you need. Also, my pump has an adjustment on its inlet to do the same thing.

I hope you see it through, it has been an amazing simple solution for me. I cant express how much it has helped.

Does your tank drain like it should?

Very nice work
Av

Thanks, Av. This has definitely been a good learning experience so far. I'm learning a ton that will help out later on. By flow control, do you mean like a ball valve type of set up, or something along those lines? My pump is 75 gallons (at max) but it has an adjustment on it. I'm not sure what the minimum volume is, but I'm not running much above that atm.

I'm definitely going to make it work. Just will need some time and testing before I'm willing to trust it with my heli's.

It actually drains really well. I had a problem in one test where the top tube had a lot of air bubbles left in it, so the water level got up much higher than normal; but other than that it's been perfect.
 
Thanks, Av. This has definitely been a good learning experience so far. I'm learning a ton that will help out later on. By flow control, do you mean like a ball valve type of set up, or something along those lines? My pump is 75 gallons (at max) but it has an adjustment on it. I'm not sure what the minimum volume is, but I'm not running much above that atm.

I'm definitely going to make it work. Just will need some time and testing before I'm willing to trust it with my heli's.

It actually drains really well. I had a problem in one test where the top tube had a lot of air bubbles left in it, so the water level got up much higher than normal; but other than that it's been perfect.

yes, and no..... ball valves (and gate valves) are really meant for isolation not regulation (off or on, not somewhere in between)

What you really want is someting more like a needle valve, these give a fine touch to the regulation

If you cant find one, just hollar ;)

IMHO a ten gallon tank would be more difficult to setup due to the smaller volumes at play.... if you get it working well then you will breeze through something larger
 
Good to know. Thanks dude!
 
  • #10
little more in depth pump and valve theory..... I know, I know... too much information LOL

Its better to have a smaller pump then a large pump that is being restricted a lot.... ideal would be no more then a 10% reduction in flow. What happens is as you restrict the flow of a centrifugal pump the relative speed of impeller to fluid becomes excessive. (image you driving along side a train at the same speed compared to the train rushing by you as you bearly move)

This increase in relative velocity causes a low pressure area to form on the impeller blade tips (Bernoulli's principle).... and this results in a condition called cavitation. Cavitation will eventually cause erosion of the impelller blade tips. (In our application, I wouldnt worry about blade tip erosion LOL)

(This is how we (USA) use to track USSR submarines, their ship's screws had a tendency to cavitate)

A partially open ball valve or gate valve causes the same condition. This is why you will sometimes hear an outside water spigot (these are gate valves) "sing". That singing noise you hear is when the valve is partially open is cavitation. Whereas your faucets inside the house are not gate nor ball valves and do not suffer from this condition. (They are what is known as globe valves)

there will be a test Monday, :D
 
  • #11
little more in depth pump and valve theory..... I know, I know... too much information LOL

Its better to have a smaller pump then a large pump that is being restricted a lot.... ideal would be no less then a 10% reduction in flow. What happens is as you restrict the flow of a centrifugal pump the relative speed of impeller to fluid becomes excessive. (image you driving along side a train at the same speed compared to the train rushing by you as you bearly move)

This increase in relative velocity causes a low pressure area to form on the impeller blade tips.... and this results in a condition called cavitation. Cavitation will eventually cause erosion of the impelller blade tips.

(This is how we (USA) use to track USSR submarines)

A partially open ball valve or gate valve causes the same condition. This is why you will sometimes hear an outside water spigot (these are gate valves) That singing noise you hear is when the valve is partially open is cavitation. Whereas your faucets inside the house are not gate or ball valves and do not suffer from this condition. (They are what is known as globe valves)

there will be a test Monday, :D

So, how does using the adjustment built into the pump play into this? Since I'm using the pump at nearly it's lowest setting, does that count as restricting the pump? Or does this more refer to external valves/restrictions?
 
  • #12
Jb, i wouldnt worry about it.....

Sometimes i go off the deep end... my main point is bigger is not always better. Some of us would instinctively think buying a big pump and just restricting it would be wise...

Our application is intermittent use and with a pump that is relatively inexpensive... we dont need to get 1,000's of hours of operation

For the ones that will follow you with this thread, dont buy the biggest pump you can find and choke it down. In addition to cavitation concerns, that flow is also what cools and lubricates the pump.


:)
 
  • #13
Jb, i wouldnt worry about it.....

sometimes i go off the deep end... my main point is bigger is not always better. Some of us would instinctively think buying a big pump and restricting would be best when it isnt...

Our application is intermittent use and an pump that is relatively inexpensive... we dont need to get 1,000's of hours of operation

For the ones that will follow you with this thread, dont buy the biggest pump you can find and choke it down

:)

:)

Gotcha. :) For the record, I bought the smallest one I could find. LOL
 
  • #14
It'll be great to see how it ends up working. Cp's definately enjoy water flow and keeping the water fresh
 
  • #15
Thanks, Rich!

After a bunch of tests, I've noticed that every now and again when the pump turns on it doesn't seem to be able to push the water up the tube. Turning it off then on again clears up the problem. I figure it must be pressure left in the tube from the draining. Anyone have any thoughts as to what's going on or how to solve the problem?

Anyway... I've found some glass to cut a top from. Still working on plans for keeping the ambient humidity up. Hopefully Saturday I'll be able to get back into it and make some more progress.
 
  • #16
Mine does that if I place it in the reservoir with the inlet to the bottom. I have to assume it's just a lack of starting torque. It's never done it in any other position.

Try laying the pump on one side or another and see if that helps. It may be just enough of a diference in loading to cure the problem. The problem may also fix itself as the rotor bushings loosen up a little with use.
 
  • #17
Thanks again, Butch. Don't know what I'd do without you!

---------- Post added at 07:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 PM ----------

The good news is that the humidity seems to be staying around 85% without any interference from me. Really close to where I want to be with little effort.
 
  • #18
Well, I got the top cut and fitted today. Never thought I'd be so happy to have worked at a glass shop. Anyway, I'm trying to figure out whether to make an opening on one side for air exchange or put several holes along the top (again, any feedback on this is most appreciated). Right now it's holding humidity at 99% even after the water drains out. Monday I'll be adding the fan(s) and substrate to get the final stage of testing out of the way. I'm thinking at this point that the LFS base I was thinking of using won't be necessary. I think a couple inches of clay pellets should do the trick. Hopefully I'll have it all up and running and be able to put plants in it this week!

The pump is running perfectly. Av, you were totally on with tipping it on it's side.
 
  • #19
Bump... hoping for some thoughts on ventilation... =)
 
  • #20
I would think one on the side, sorta low... and one on the top at the far end... that way you get cross ventialtion via convection or small fan
 
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