You greenhouse may no be leaking due to cracks its just the heating and cooling process like in a car. No matter how hot it is in a car within an hour or so its back down to outside temps and a car has alittle more insulation then your greenhouse. For water barrels you should be able to find blue ones for some what cheap. 10 to 20 each paint them black and cut the tops off of them. This will heat and humidify your greenhouse. Also to keep the water warmer you can add bubble wrap to the inside b4 you fill it so allow it to cool off faster. A clear silicon on the outside of the building so stop air and water from leaking in but you will also have to do the inside as well. This will prevent you from ever taking it down with out but if you ever have. To then you may have to take a razor blade and cut along the grooves of every panel. It get really expensive to heat during the winter months no matter what climate your in but a somewhat cheap method would be to bubble wrap then plastic poly the outside during these months. Note plastic poly should be 6 to 10 mill thick. The thicker the better as well with the bubble wrap. I know it may not look astetically appealing but it will help keep more heat in. If I may ask did you purchase greenhouse from harbor freight
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Pineapple's Greenhouse
- Thread starter Nepenthesis
- Start date
You realize that the walls of your greenhouse have a Rfactor of about 2?? So even with every crack and crevice sealed they at best will hold heat for about 30 minutes...
Best way to hold heat is a thermal blanket on top, but you would have to toss it on every night. bubble wrap layer on the inside would help.. Polyfilm on the outside wouldn't do much unless you can double layer it and inflate it, which would be difficult with your setup. But even with added insulation you might be looking at an Rfactor of around 3.5 - 4.. There is a reason building walls are thick and hard to see through ;>
Best way to hold heat is a thermal blanket on top, but you would have to toss it on every night. bubble wrap layer on the inside would help.. Polyfilm on the outside wouldn't do much unless you can double layer it and inflate it, which would be difficult with your setup. But even with added insulation you might be looking at an Rfactor of around 3.5 - 4.. There is a reason building walls are thick and hard to see through ;>
As others have said, the R-value of the double wall polycarbonate is very low; much of your heat is leaking through these panels, not through cracks. Its unavoidable.
Now, I don't mean to be unkind or anything, but I did say to you weeks ago that your vision of a "passive" climate control greenhouse would likely prove to be unrealistic. If you want the greenhouse to stay reasonably warm at night through the winter, then you have to add heat. If you expect to cool it to under 85F when things warm up, then you will have to enable a cooling system. If you want to maintain high humidity, then you have to put water into the air. Sorry, but there is no escaping it; you can't rely completely on passive systems to do all the tasks you need to maintain an ideal Nepenthes grow space.
That said, heating a small grow space in a mild climate like yours isn't going to break your budget, I wouldn't think, anyway. I have a modest 9 X 12 foot house that is heated by propane, in zone 8a Oregon. Winter nights here are typically between 28F and 40F, with the majority hovering a few degrees above freezing. I keep the propane heater on the low setting during most daytime periods to bring the temperature up to at least the low 70s. (some days I kick it up to the high setting if its really grey and cold) Some days are mild enough that I can turn the heat off during the afternoon and modest solar gain warms the space up to as high as 78F for a time. On nights when temps drop below 27F (or thereabouts), I throw a couple of old comforters over the roof of the house to help hold in heat. Greenhouse supply companies make six foot wide rolls of bubble wrap insulation specifically for insulating greenhouses, if you want to look into that, but the stuff ain't cheap: expect to pay about a dollar a foot, perhaps more. You can buy a lot pf propane for the cost of a 50 foot roll of insulation wrap!
During December and January, my fuel costs to maintain a near-ideal highland/intermediate Nepenthes environment have been about $25 a week. I consider this to be a very reasonable heating cost. I spend more than that amount on coffee alone every week, so twenty-five bucks seems very reasonable, in my estimation. Perhaps you thought it would be far more expensive than that? FYI the propane heater itself wasn't very expensive: about $299 if I remember correctly. You can obtain a tank for a reasonable price as well.
As for keeping temps from exceeding the high end of tolerance, you need to be ready to deal with that also. I don't think you can afford to opt for a passive system and expect to get the job done. You can keep a lot of excess heat from building up in the grow space by getting shade cloth for the house; it will go a long way towards keeping things cooler. I'm sure the house came with louvers for venting excess heat, which will be helpful, but probably won't do 100% of the job. You should likely consider installing a thermostat driven exhaust fan, so that when temps hit, say, 85F, the fan kicks on and starts drawing hot air out of the house. This will have the secondary effect of bringing in drier air from outside, and you will want to address that problem as well. There are numerous options for misting systems and humidifiers, you just need to select one that is appropriate for a space your size.
One other note: If you seal up every single crack and leak in that greenhouse, you are introducing another potential problem, should you decide to acquire a small propane heater; you can't completely seal up such a small space when operating a propane device, because there must be some air exchange, or you will create a situation that could be dangerous to YOU. Burn up all the oxygen and you can suffocate yourself. Its probably not good for the plants either.
If you want specific recommendations/suggestions for reliable-but-not-too-expensive hardware for any of these tasks, feel free to ask.
PS: Don't let these technical problems discourage you. You just need to realize that all greenhouses built for specific genera (especially ones that have fairly exacting climate requirements) need to be equipped to make those conditions happen, reliably and unerringly.
Now, I don't mean to be unkind or anything, but I did say to you weeks ago that your vision of a "passive" climate control greenhouse would likely prove to be unrealistic. If you want the greenhouse to stay reasonably warm at night through the winter, then you have to add heat. If you expect to cool it to under 85F when things warm up, then you will have to enable a cooling system. If you want to maintain high humidity, then you have to put water into the air. Sorry, but there is no escaping it; you can't rely completely on passive systems to do all the tasks you need to maintain an ideal Nepenthes grow space.
That said, heating a small grow space in a mild climate like yours isn't going to break your budget, I wouldn't think, anyway. I have a modest 9 X 12 foot house that is heated by propane, in zone 8a Oregon. Winter nights here are typically between 28F and 40F, with the majority hovering a few degrees above freezing. I keep the propane heater on the low setting during most daytime periods to bring the temperature up to at least the low 70s. (some days I kick it up to the high setting if its really grey and cold) Some days are mild enough that I can turn the heat off during the afternoon and modest solar gain warms the space up to as high as 78F for a time. On nights when temps drop below 27F (or thereabouts), I throw a couple of old comforters over the roof of the house to help hold in heat. Greenhouse supply companies make six foot wide rolls of bubble wrap insulation specifically for insulating greenhouses, if you want to look into that, but the stuff ain't cheap: expect to pay about a dollar a foot, perhaps more. You can buy a lot pf propane for the cost of a 50 foot roll of insulation wrap!
During December and January, my fuel costs to maintain a near-ideal highland/intermediate Nepenthes environment have been about $25 a week. I consider this to be a very reasonable heating cost. I spend more than that amount on coffee alone every week, so twenty-five bucks seems very reasonable, in my estimation. Perhaps you thought it would be far more expensive than that? FYI the propane heater itself wasn't very expensive: about $299 if I remember correctly. You can obtain a tank for a reasonable price as well.
As for keeping temps from exceeding the high end of tolerance, you need to be ready to deal with that also. I don't think you can afford to opt for a passive system and expect to get the job done. You can keep a lot of excess heat from building up in the grow space by getting shade cloth for the house; it will go a long way towards keeping things cooler. I'm sure the house came with louvers for venting excess heat, which will be helpful, but probably won't do 100% of the job. You should likely consider installing a thermostat driven exhaust fan, so that when temps hit, say, 85F, the fan kicks on and starts drawing hot air out of the house. This will have the secondary effect of bringing in drier air from outside, and you will want to address that problem as well. There are numerous options for misting systems and humidifiers, you just need to select one that is appropriate for a space your size.
One other note: If you seal up every single crack and leak in that greenhouse, you are introducing another potential problem, should you decide to acquire a small propane heater; you can't completely seal up such a small space when operating a propane device, because there must be some air exchange, or you will create a situation that could be dangerous to YOU. Burn up all the oxygen and you can suffocate yourself. Its probably not good for the plants either.
If you want specific recommendations/suggestions for reliable-but-not-too-expensive hardware for any of these tasks, feel free to ask.
PS: Don't let these technical problems discourage you. You just need to realize that all greenhouses built for specific genera (especially ones that have fairly exacting climate requirements) need to be equipped to make those conditions happen, reliably and unerringly.
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
Thanks guys!
What I will do is seal off every single possible crack from the inside and outside with foil tape. That will solve the issue for sure. Since that will water-proof the greenhouse, I can then add a heater and a swamp cooler, hooked up to a thermostat.
Also... Humidity. It stays around 50% during the day, and when the greenhouse heats up to around 85, it can drop to 30%. How do I keep the air really humid? I'm thinking of getting two, 15" wide, 6' (appox.) long containers if I can find them, filling them with water, and sticking them under the two shelves on the sides. Will this raise the humidity in the greenhouse sufficiently? What else can I do to raise it to around 80% inside the greenhouse? I just don't understand it. At the greenhouse at the nep store, it's extremely humid, without standing water or a fogger or any sort. There are some high humidity requiring neps that pitcher just fine there.
---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------
I was kind of getting worried that the N. jacquelineae was going to be green, but sure enough, it pulled through at the last minute.
The new Pasian Highlands N. truncata pitcher is about to open! And another growth tip popped out and is now forming a leaf!
N. densiflora x spectabilis is coming right along, though it's a rather slow grower... The new leaf that was forming has been unfolding for the last few weeks. It's not even 10% open yet... :-(
And last, but not least, the new pitcher of my N. x 'Peter D'amato' x maxima, which has been forming since I got it. It's a quickly growing plant and has grown and opened an entire new leaf. The pitcher is kinda slowly forming, though the lid isn't suffering from tiny lid syndrome, which tells me it's a pretty hardy plant. I just can't wait to see what the upper pitchers look like, because the lower pitchers look amazing, and N. x 'Peter D'amato' has Lowii in it, so it should look really chill.
...You can also see the newest N. singalana 'Belirang' pitcher to the left and the N. jacquelineae pitcher that is forming above and behind the N. x 'Peter D'amato' x maxima pitcher...
What I will do is seal off every single possible crack from the inside and outside with foil tape. That will solve the issue for sure. Since that will water-proof the greenhouse, I can then add a heater and a swamp cooler, hooked up to a thermostat.
Also... Humidity. It stays around 50% during the day, and when the greenhouse heats up to around 85, it can drop to 30%. How do I keep the air really humid? I'm thinking of getting two, 15" wide, 6' (appox.) long containers if I can find them, filling them with water, and sticking them under the two shelves on the sides. Will this raise the humidity in the greenhouse sufficiently? What else can I do to raise it to around 80% inside the greenhouse? I just don't understand it. At the greenhouse at the nep store, it's extremely humid, without standing water or a fogger or any sort. There are some high humidity requiring neps that pitcher just fine there.
---------- Post added at 07:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 PM ----------
I was kind of getting worried that the N. jacquelineae was going to be green, but sure enough, it pulled through at the last minute.
The new Pasian Highlands N. truncata pitcher is about to open! And another growth tip popped out and is now forming a leaf!
N. densiflora x spectabilis is coming right along, though it's a rather slow grower... The new leaf that was forming has been unfolding for the last few weeks. It's not even 10% open yet... :-(
And last, but not least, the new pitcher of my N. x 'Peter D'amato' x maxima, which has been forming since I got it. It's a quickly growing plant and has grown and opened an entire new leaf. The pitcher is kinda slowly forming, though the lid isn't suffering from tiny lid syndrome, which tells me it's a pretty hardy plant. I just can't wait to see what the upper pitchers look like, because the lower pitchers look amazing, and N. x 'Peter D'amato' has Lowii in it, so it should look really chill.
...You can also see the newest N. singalana 'Belirang' pitcher to the left and the N. jacquelineae pitcher that is forming above and behind the N. x 'Peter D'amato' x maxima pitcher...
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
Not sure if I mentioned it, but I'm using a 20g glass tank in my greenhouse as a terrarium for frogs. Until I get them, it will be housing my two newest members of the greenhouse clan. I'll be setting up the terrarium this weekend... A thick layer of aquarium gravel for drainage, topped with a thick layer of dead sphag that I can plant neps and other tropicals in, topped with my current live sphagnum moss.
Two newest members, which should turn into fifty new members in a few months...
& =_=
Two newest members, which should turn into fifty new members in a few months...
& =_=
dionae
sarracenia lover
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
I used to keep orchids, so I have some experience with tropical plants prior to neps. Neps are so much faster growing and cooler than orchids though, lol. Hopefully they do well long term.
Dexenthes
Aristoloingulamata
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
Hey nice collection you're building!
Thank you! Hopefully I can get them outside soon.
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
Heli
villosaholic
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
Both will contain living creatures very soon. :devil:
...And possible nep seeds.
It was took dark to take legit pics, so I'll post them tomorrow lol.
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
looks awesome!
Thanks!!
Okay, so the male guppy sorta died... But what do you expect from fish farm guppies? :/
The female is pregnant, as you can tell from the pic, but not she's going erratic, swimming at the sides. The three things I remember from a loooong time ago when I bred guppies was that the belly will be squared off, the gravid spot will be dark and they will be swimming up and down in the corner.
I'm thinking this girl is going to have around 20 *tiny* babies if she has them soon like I suspect. Her belly is kinda rounded off and she is going erratic. However, the gravid spot isn't dark, but I remember that was kinda innacurate as well. It's a dark brown-red, obviously from the red yolk sacs on the babies. I do see some darker areas, so it may be the eyes or something. I just really hope I'm correct and she has them in a few hours. I'm over analyzing this, haha. Since the male died, I kind of feel like I deserve some babies.
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
mikefallen13
Mr. veitchii
Trays of standing water alone will not provide adequate humidity, but then I suppose you'll find this out for yourself. I've made several recommendations for achieving your goals and offered assistance in selecting appropriate equipment to do so, but you seem happier to disregard advice given to you. I guess there is something to be said for finding your own solutions.....
Nepenthesis
Formerly known as Pineapple
I didn't read anything specifically about keeping humidity high other than to put water into the air. There's evaporation, misting, ect. What would you recommend? If you really don't think these containers will help raise the humidity around the racks at all, then I might as well return them and get my money back, but I would like to try them out just to see if they retain heat or add to the humidity just a bit.
I'm still deciding on the heating/cooling. Money isn't really the issue, it's more so that the greenhouse is less than 10' from my house, and if anything caught on fire, my house would be gone. It almost happened to my friend's house, but luckily he caught it in time and only his greenhouse burned down. That's basically my concern. I'm probably going to get heating/cooling though. I was gonna get a 1500w heating fan I found online and a cheap swamp cooler to humidify the air and cool down the greenhouse on hot days. Any recommendations?
