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Need sources for a good sized epdm liner
- Thread starter LauraZ5
- Start date
That's a pretty big piece! Luckily smelling salts are not that expensive.
Maybe this will help. Don't know where this falls in the $ scale but it's a start..
http://www.pondliner.com/EPDMSizes.htm
Tony
Maybe this will help. Don't know where this falls in the $ scale but it's a start..
http://www.pondliner.com/EPDMSizes.htm
Tony
Shipping is certainly a consideration. Liner is not exactly light. It wouldn't surprise me if your looking at $50-$75 freight fees. $.36/ftsq seems about the cheapest I could find on stock width cut to length 45mil epdm.
Might consider a less expensive type liner? PVC or one of the others?
Also good plan to put an underlayment down first.
Tony
Might consider a less expensive type liner? PVC or one of the others?
Also good plan to put an underlayment down first.
Tony
This is the pricing I had found to be the best which is comparable to what you found-
http://www.azponds.com/pond_liner.htm
Shipping was about the same too at around $100.00.
As far as underlayment, there are prople who have used old carpeting but seems to me that over time those who use carpeting always end up with a leak of some sort thanks to missing a carpet staple. I suppose I could use an actual underlayment... smelling salts are cheap. I've been using sand delivered to the site which unfortunately costs more than actual underlayment when delivered but that was for preforms that were considerably smaller. I don't know if exclusively using sand is the greatest idea this time around though although I feel it provides the best cushion and has the added benefit of not deteriorating over time. My thoughts were to go with the sand for the bottom and geotextile fabrics for the sides.
Then to throw a monkey wrench into my decision making process, I ran into this which offers a .60-
http://www.jm.com/roofing....146.pdf
http://www.azponds.com/pond_liner.htm
Shipping was about the same too at around $100.00.
As far as underlayment, there are prople who have used old carpeting but seems to me that over time those who use carpeting always end up with a leak of some sort thanks to missing a carpet staple. I suppose I could use an actual underlayment... smelling salts are cheap. I've been using sand delivered to the site which unfortunately costs more than actual underlayment when delivered but that was for preforms that were considerably smaller. I don't know if exclusively using sand is the greatest idea this time around though although I feel it provides the best cushion and has the added benefit of not deteriorating over time. My thoughts were to go with the sand for the bottom and geotextile fabrics for the sides.
Then to throw a monkey wrench into my decision making process, I ran into this which offers a .60-
http://www.jm.com/roofing....146.pdf
I have several ponds although I am no expert by any means. Two naturally occurring ponds, 1 roofing lined pond, and several preforms primarily for herps. This new hole I had excavated is for a bog in which to grow plants indigenous to my area which would include CPs. Incredibly, I'm thinking that CPs might be more sensitive to chemicals than koi which is why I was considering actual pond liner this time around as opposed to Johns Mansville roofing liner or Firestone roofing membrane. I would like to go the route of roofing liner to save a few hundred dollars but am hesitating to do so because I am not dealing with fish or herps this time but CPs. I researched this pond/roof liner deal a while ago as pertained to actual ponds and truly was incapable of discerning any difference other than that which would be associated with how each particular product was marketed. The roofing liner does appear to be shipped with talc and an ever so negligible amount of a film which appears to be quite easily removed with Dawn dish washing detergent while pond liner appears to be devoid of both the talc and the film. I tried to contact the manufacturers and was incapable of getting either to come right out and state that fish or frogs would die if I used roofing liner as opposed to pond liner. They spoke of differing cure processes and promptly claimed a roofing liner would not be guaranteed if used as a pond liner. What is interesting is that they claimed pond liners had passed the EPA and ASTM fish friendly tests yet no mention was made as to whether roofing liners were ever even tested. I tried to get them to bite and no takers. Countless people are using roofing liners in their fish and herp ponds and experiencing no fish/herp loss or birth abnormalities in fry/tads. Bottom line is that our CPs and our fish/herps are most probably exposed to far greater risks from PVC plumbing than from rubber roofing used as a liner and I did trench a 150' pvc line from a sump pump pit down to the area where the new bog will be. The elastomer that manufacturers use in poly vinyl chloride products to make it flexible has been determined to be carcinogenic. Pure PVC is quite brittle without the additives. Quite frankly, I don't know what to do right now. I discontinued my lawn service because of the chemicals they were using. I wasn't too thrilled about my kids rolling around in a "Scott's" or "True Green" lawn anyway and I have no doubt this benefited every living creature in the local vicinity. I try my best to be conscientious but I don't know enough about CPs to determine if it is safe to go with anything but an "approved" pond liner that passed those EPA and ASTM fish friendly tests and that .60 Johns Manville product at the same price as the .45 liners you and I both found is tempting. I've got a few months to decide.
Currently I have one tiny little bog that is maybe 200 gallons max. It is a round kiddie pool and I hid the turquoise edge by adding cultured stone. What are others using as liners for their bogs?
Currently I have one tiny little bog that is maybe 200 gallons max. It is a round kiddie pool and I hid the turquoise edge by adding cultured stone. What are others using as liners for their bogs?
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
Well Jim, help me out here and tell me which product you would go with. Should I go with roofing liner (seems as if it is a big secret as to whether it has ever even been tested or not) or actual pond liner which is "approved". My gut feeling is that responses from manufacturers reps took into consideration possible legal ramifications and it is quite possible the roofing materials were never tested therefore they did not pass or fail anything. I realize the costs associated with testing are exorbitant and must be passed to the consumer. Perhaps this is why there exists such a significant price difference between pond liner and roofing liner
You really gotta wonder. I’d like to save a few hundred dollars but don't want to end up with CPs that look like something out of a B rated horror flick if there is actually some sort of a difference between the two products.
You really gotta wonder. I’d like to save a few hundred dollars but don't want to end up with CPs that look like something out of a B rated horror flick if there is actually some sort of a difference between the two products.Well I can't vouch for the roofing product but if MANY people have used them without ill effects on their pond inhabitants then I can't see a reason why it would pose a problem for CPs.
Now if your plants do turn out to look like B rated horror flick.. I will point to the other guy and say HE DID IT!
Tony
Now if your plants do turn out to look like B rated horror flick.. I will point to the other guy and say HE DID IT!
Tony
Ha ha ha! Too funny. I am actually leaning towrd the .60 roofing liner right now. Good thing you commented that you couldn't "see a reason why it would pose a problem for CPs". I needed an expert opinion on this to rationalize pocketing the difference in the price of the liners.
How do I save a thread so that I can refer to it again in say... 3 to 5 years if my plants should start glowing by the light of the silvery moon?
How do I save a thread so that I can refer to it again in say... 3 to 5 years if my plants should start glowing by the light of the silvery moon?
Yes Pingman, they have been tested by me and my neighbors on fish and aquatic plants. For some reason I keep thinking CPs will be considerably more susceptible to chemicals leaching. Don't ask me where I came up with that.
I'm going for the roofing liner.
a 25x50' "approved .60 pond liner at pondliners.com is listed as this-
25' x 50' $612.50 538 lbs
shipping is going to be somewhere around $200 because it is over 500lbs.
A roofing liner from Firestone, Georgia Pacific, or Johns Manville in the 25' x 50' at .60 is going to cost me around $490 (includes tax) however as the supplier is local, I incur a delivery charge of $25 plus a fuel charge of $5 as opposed to a $200 shipping charge. Another added bonus is that the drivers move the liner from the truck to the site. The .45 pond liners were more affordable and the shipping on them was only around $100. Over all, I save about $300 and I get a thicker liner that is more capable of withstanding roots of surrounding vegetation.
Oh my gosh, my el cheapo side is emerging as I am going for the roofing liner! Time to start pricing geotextiles for the sides.
I'm going for the roofing liner.
a 25x50' "approved .60 pond liner at pondliners.com is listed as this-
25' x 50' $612.50 538 lbs
shipping is going to be somewhere around $200 because it is over 500lbs.
A roofing liner from Firestone, Georgia Pacific, or Johns Manville in the 25' x 50' at .60 is going to cost me around $490 (includes tax) however as the supplier is local, I incur a delivery charge of $25 plus a fuel charge of $5 as opposed to a $200 shipping charge. Another added bonus is that the drivers move the liner from the truck to the site. The .45 pond liners were more affordable and the shipping on them was only around $100. Over all, I save about $300 and I get a thicker liner that is more capable of withstanding roots of surrounding vegetation.
Oh my gosh, my el cheapo side is emerging as I am going for the roofing liner! Time to start pricing geotextiles for the sides.
jimscott
Tropical Fish Enthusiast
I know you know me well enough to know I was teasing poor Tony. I don't want to save this thread but there is a thread I want to save that has germination information in it that I better bump so I don't lose it as it is coming close to the 30 days where it goes into the Terra black hole. I already lost 4 private messages that I saved that had CP growing information that I THOUGHT I was saving and presto whamo all gone when I went to print off my instructions. I about had a heart attack. Come to think of it, I ordered a ping for next spring and I need the information on potting and soil medium that pingman provided for me in a thread so I better bump that before I lose it.
Jim, I tried to right click but all it is doing is saving the web page in my Internet Explorer "My Favorites". I don't think they archive these threads for ever.
Jim, I tried to right click but all it is doing is saving the web page in my Internet Explorer "My Favorites". I don't think they archive these threads for ever.
i just built a mini pond this last summer, the plants are doing well. i lined it with two layers of visqueen, one white one black. it was what i had lyeing around the place after painting and other house work. i have sarracenia, random sundews, venus flytraps and a few butterworts in the pond.
i posted pictures at www.geocities.com/thelostboys77/grownlist.html
i have have yet to add my other photos to the site but the building a pond ones should be there.
i posted pictures at www.geocities.com/thelostboys77/grownlist.html
i have have yet to add my other photos to the site but the building a pond ones should be there.
hurrmm... it's workin' of me over here....try it now.
thank you much! this seems like a good collective information brain for me to pick through. the butterworts currently outside are P.caerulea, P.vallisnerifolia & a crazy hybrid of sorts i left out last winter that unexpectedly came back. i'm testing luck to see if he'll come back again. i really like the spanish butterwort, it is definatly the neatist looking of the bunch.
i mimiced the pond idea from www.pitcherplants.org they have a picture show n' tell of building some ponds at an elementry school. if you look throughout their site there's lot of examples of how they have the ponds set up for propagation etc. i also had a magazine featuring water gardens that said regardless of the liner, it needs to be 10mm (i will double check that when i get home) thick. it also said plastic bags would work as long as you piled enough on.
thank you much! this seems like a good collective information brain for me to pick through. the butterworts currently outside are P.caerulea, P.vallisnerifolia & a crazy hybrid of sorts i left out last winter that unexpectedly came back. i'm testing luck to see if he'll come back again. i really like the spanish butterwort, it is definatly the neatist looking of the bunch.
i mimiced the pond idea from www.pitcherplants.org they have a picture show n' tell of building some ponds at an elementry school. if you look throughout their site there's lot of examples of how they have the ponds set up for propagation etc. i also had a magazine featuring water gardens that said regardless of the liner, it needs to be 10mm (i will double check that when i get home) thick. it also said plastic bags would work as long as you piled enough on.
Hi, I got in to your site this time. I did get to see a list of all your plants and it sure does look like you have come a long way in only 3 years. What state do you live in? I saw your P. caerula, I love that Ping and that is one I will want some day in the future. Very pretty plant. I can't get your links to work for your photos though. I am probably doing something wrong.
