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Thread: In ground bod garden?

  1. #33

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    Once you go soggy... you never go back!

    I've got some standing water around here in a clearing and am definitely deliberating over how I might be able to improve upon the existing vegetation. I'm also planning a rain garden now. I probably won't get to it for over a year as there are too many incomplete projects around here as it is but I see this gutter that is emptying out into an area where I could easily divert it just a few feet more to get it to go right where I want it. Now I wonder which CPs I could get going in a rain garden as opposed to an actual bog? Gotta love soggy gardening!

    Will you plant CPs exclusively or a mix in that area? If you are going for a mix, send me your name and address as I have some native goodies for you. Can't wait to see your photos.

  2. #34

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    I'll probably go for a mix. I'd like to dig out a small pond (frog pond) could throw some aquatic Utricularia in it.

    I just brought the test kit home today, so I'll get to do my tests tomorrow.
    What soil tests are important?
    pH - what range am I looking for.
    Also I was thinking of testing some of the water that is standing in the area to make sure it isn't to mineral rich.
    \"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.\"
    --P. J. O'Rourke
    GL

  3. #35

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    I am thinking the pH range in your bog would be best somewhere around 6.5-7.0 in my opinion however this varies considerably based on region and species planted so best to get more input from others. The pH range in a herp/fish pond should be more toward neutral. Nothing kills off herps and fish faster than rapid pH changes. pH fluctuates throughout the day and also based on other factors so if possible try hard to test at the same time of day when you do your tests. I find my wildest fluctuations occur in the fall because of oak leaves dropping in ponds and after a heavy rain. Sometimes I adjust the pH a tad, sometimes I leave it be. Depends on what the averages were the week before.

    I saw photos you posted of your property. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful and when can we all move in with you? Just teasing. If you dig/connect a herp pond to/in the area you are going to use as a bog, you will most assuredly have a logistical nightmare stabilizing the pH in the pond. I am pretty sure the water will never be clear which bothers many people. No matter what type of hi-tech bio filters or skimmers you connect to a pond in that area, you will be very frustrated and I'm thinking you will rip all of your hair out within one season and be willing to accept that 4th corner over there at a funny farm with me, April, and Rattler. Please check into positioning a pond at a higher elevation closer to your house and as a separate entity from that low area. Other than pH headaches, the big concern is that knock down gorgeous picture perfect lake back behind your home. I'll step right out on a limb and suggest that you really need to seriously consider going a 100% native. I am relatively sure a probability for "seeding" your lake exists as well as any waters that flow downstream from your lake with any plant and animal material you might place in a pond or a bog regardless of where they are situated in your backyard. It's the proximity of that lake to the area in which you will be working that is sending up red flags. The potential for seasonal flooding may be very real. In a situation such as that which was described above and that which I saw in your photographs in the other thread, one might want to weigh the benefits of using native plants exclusively whether it be a CP, bog, woodland, prairie, or marginal species. I know you never mentioned adding fish but most people canít pass up the pretty goldies and within a year or so, theyíve generally added fish from PetSmart or WalMart- I know I did. They always seem like such a natural to add to a herp pond. Exotic carp and/or exotic turtles, as well as any other non indigenous fish or herps, really should not be used either as whatever would be stocked in a new pond would be quite capable of ending up in that lake. Point in context is what happened here by me the spring of '04. That was the second hundred year flood in 10 years and the third 100 year flood in 15 years. Contents of people's bogs and ponds were washing into the Des Plaines River as well as into naturally occurring wetlands. The Des Plaines River was spreading all that non indigenous flora and fauna into other bodies of water as it swelled and spread. The Des Plaines River is a natural waterway not so unlike the creek on my property that flows down and into the Des Plaines River. They are connected so they are one. In a perfect world; accidental discharges of pet goldfish/koi, red eared sliders, and non indigenous plant materials don't end up in natural waterways. Sadly, we don't live in a perfect world and rains from the heavens often thwart our best efforts to eliminate any and all possibilities of introducing exotic species to natural bodies of water. Needless to say numerous species of both plants and animals were unintentionally introduced to an already taxed watershed because many people didnít know any better.

    Building a pond from scratch in a different location and at a higher elevation with an EPDM liner and the right equipment will be considerably easier to maintain, more herp friendly, and will have less potential of negatively impacting the environment than taking what appears to be the path of least resistance. I'm writing from actual experience here and no need for you to get hit by a Mack truck like I did and have the Army Corps of Engineers crawling all over you while holding an aerial view of your property evidencing disturbances within 100' of water. I have two natural ponds on my property and numerous others that I created either for herps or for my Wakins. Wakins are a non indigenous fish but that particular pond is at an elevation of 786í above sea level. If water gets to that area, my entire community will be nothing but chimneys poking up through waves as that would be a flood of Biblical proportions. That is my only pond that has non natives in it and it is right by my front door and the fish were gifts- ugh.

    Here's a great book you might want to consider picking up at your local library- Lakescaping For Wildlife and Water Quality by Carrol L Henderson, Carolyn J Dindorf and Fred J Rozumalski. If you are interested and canít get your hands on a copy, I will send you my copy and you can just return it when you are finished. I recently recommended this book to somebody else and it addresses many issues that will confront you.

    You and I are within 100 miles of each other. It would be my pleasure to help you with both non CP plants and critters for your very worthwhile project. Plants I would be more than happy to mail to you- my treat. Critters you would have to come and pick up or meet me somewhere in Milwaukee to get as I can't bear to ship a live fish or critter. And, 95% of what I have added here is native non CP species so that's what I have to share. Please take me up on this offer if you go the route of a pond as there is nobody out there with whom I can share anything as I pretty much have but only one CP of each listed on my grow list so those are out to share for a few years.

  4. #36

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    My yard has very little elevation change to it, at most 2 feet other then the small hill that the house occupies. And yes the area does flood, last 2 years it was 1 foot under water after snow melt/spring storms, this year no flooding on the snow melt, and we haven't gotten much rain yet. Most years it doesn't flood that badly tho.

    I wasn't thinking of a pond big enough for fish, just enough to keep standing water for a few aquatic Bladderworts.

    With the harsh winters I was thinking I would need to go with native CPs anyway. Anything else would go in seasonally and be pulled for wintering in an area they could survive (indoors).

    Here is a list of CP species that are native to my area.

    Utricularia cornuta Michx
    Utricularia geminiscapa Benj
    Utricularia gibba L
    Utricularia intermedia Hayne
    Utricularia minor L.
    Utricularia purpurea Walter
    Utricularia resupinata B.D.Greene ex Bigelow
    Utricularia vulgaris L.

    Drosera intermedia Hayne
    Drosera linearis Goldie
    Drosera rotundifolia L.

    Sarracenia purpurea L. subsp. purpurea

    Now I have no Idea where I could go and buy any of those, but they are all native to the area, most within 10 miles of my house.

    I would love help with any of those and with non cp native species.

    Saw a really cool bog plant friday when I was out hiking, I thought they where Sarracenia purpurea, until I found one that was alittle more developed then the rest, and it had a yellow ball in what I thought was pitchers, and spade like leaves starting to form around the 'flower'(?). I am going to go back and snap some pictures as soon as I get home early enough one day.
    \"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.\"
    --P. J. O'Rourke
    GL

  5. #37

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    Looks as if you and I have a considerable amount in common. Knock out the P. vulgaris for my area and add in D. filliformis and you've basically got my list of what is native. Good, this is very good. Please go and find a member named agughes and get her to give you some local genotype cardinal flower. Extremely showy and beneficial to wildlife. Ask her for some of her Virginia Waterleaf too as that is actually native to our area. Then I will add some things in for that area. I have Lizard's Tail as well as Blue Flag Iris. Those are nice staples particularly when one is going to fill in with CPs. I like the mix because those species will attract insects that your plants will find tasty. Yum yum!

    Yes, getting the plant material is difficult. Many people trade but when you are just starting up like me and you, we almost have to purchase or we'll feel guilty as the people around here are ummm... more generous than you could ever imagine. The other thing you can do is check the trade forums here and sometimes you can run into people offering plants you want for postage. Go for it, I have and I have received gorgeous and healthy plants. I have sources I can share with you for fill in purchases. Does it have to be a local genotype? If it doesn't, you'll have a better shot at finding species that will work for you. Oh oh oh, join the ICPS. They allow members to buy seed for $1 a pack and they have a decent selection. Most of my seed came from different sources though only because I know quite a few native plant people. That is how I am actually going at it for my property. I am germinating seed while keeping my eyes open to buy plants.

    You can still do a pond. You would just need to increase the elevation. Don't give up, I didn't.

  6. #38

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    I may not need help with plants after all. Going tomorrow morning to get a job working for a company that grows native wetland plants. A person from the same program as me works there and said that they are looking for one more person. Pay doesn't sound that good, but if I get an employee discount that will more then make up for it.
    \"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.\"
    --P. J. O'Rourke
    GL

  7. #39

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    Have you gone soggy yet?

    Congrtulations on landing that job! Good going!

  8. #40

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    S. rubra certainly are the most temprapmental species but I do love my gulfensis

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