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In ground bod garden?

technoracer

technoracer

hello everyone!
i'm thinking about building an in ground bog garden at my house this spring for my sarrs and vft's. i'm picturing a round area, maybe 5' in diameter and about a foot deep, lined to hold the soil and clean water. i'm thinking about his so i won't have to water everyday (as i do in the heat of summer in ohio) and for a little landscaping effect at the house. i know that i'll have to mulch for the winters, but i think that it'll pretty much take care of it's self most of the summer, provided i can keep the squirrels out of it (fencing and a moat around the outside?). should i keep the plants in their post, and just bury the whole pot in the soil? that would allow the plants to pull from the same water sourse, could look attractive, and would make it easy to dig up and divide the plants when needed.
does anyone have a permanant install bog garden? have any picts or tips to just comments in general? what do ya think!?!

peace,
technoracer
 
Hmm well I don't have an in ground bog personally so can't comment on all your questions.

I think you will find it will take quite a bit of water on your part. It wouldn't surprise me if it takes nearly as much as if you had kept your plants in water trays. In fact it may take more.

Will you be able to access the circle from all sides? If not then 5' diameter may make it very hard to reach certain points of the bog, without getting into it yourself.

12" deep may not be deep enough if you have mature Sarracenia.

Rodents and what not will be a concern but you should also think about potential problems while maintaining the rest of your landscape/yard. Tap water from sprinklers, chemicals/fertilizer from lawns/shrubs etc.

Tony
 
thanks for the comments tony!

-yes, i will be able to reach it from all sides, so that won't be a problem. i am thinking a lot of water will come from a downspout that is there (i collect rain water for the plants already, so that should be ok).

-i don't water the lawn, so i won't have to worry about tap water, but i do fertilize the grass in the spring, and know that i will have to be very carefull when applying it.

-how deep would you suggest for mature sarrs?

what i'm really looking for is a growing space that i will only have to water once a week, as i'm still thinking about taking a job that will keep me away for 5-7 days at a time.i don't really want to do a bunch of containers, as they would have to be huge to hold enough water, and could be less astetically pleasing. also, with above ground containers, i will have to move them around for winter, while i'm hoping an inground bog will be ok with mulching.

plants will be limited to whatever i think will survive zone 5 ohio winters, plus anything i am willing to risk. my boss is giving me 2.5 cu ft of spaghnum moss, and i have about 2/3's of a bag (2 cu ft?), so all i really need to buy soilwise, is some sand or perlite to mix in.

what do you think about leaving the sarrs in post, and planting the whole pot in the ground to make it easier to pull them out later to divide when necessary?

thanks for the comments! keep them comming!

peace,
tech...
 
Oh hmm unfortunately so far you have about the only avid cp collector that doesn't have a bog trying to give advice on a bog lol.

Depth? Oh gosh. I think I would lean more towards at least 18" deep vs 12". That will give you more soil mass which will hold more water and dry at a slower rate. It will also give you more depth for roots to go and for extra water holding capacity. Which leads me to my next thought. I don't think sticking the whole pot in the bog would be a problem as long as the pot is sufficiently large in depth and width so that it does not hinder the plants to much degree. To do that though you're probably looking at 2+ gallon sized pots for large plants like S. leucophylla.
 
And NEVER use perlite in an outdoor bog. If and or when it rains, you will have that garbage everywhere!!!
 
1.5 feet deep minimum. My large sarr clumps reach down that far. I never fertilize the yard. Make sure the bog gets direct sun in the middle of the day or for 6-8 hours. This is the most impoertant rule. Only one half a day sun and you will have alge/mold/annoying crap killing your babies. You will not ever need to water it unless your live sphagnum/surface of bog feels dry (which is propbibly only when it is windy. Do not add drainage holes
 
Don't keep them in pots. Its too much of a hassle and in cold places grownd freeze and whatnot will heave the pots up and kill your cps
 
Frost heaving isn't caused by pots, although small ones might potentially heave as opposed to big ones which reach down deep into the bog.  Which is why I suggested big pots only.  Frost heave damage can occur to the plants if they are planted straight in the bog.  The issue is insufficient mulching which causes excessive cycles of rapid freezing/thawing through the Winter.


Personally I wouldn't use pots. Digging out a large clump to divide wouldn't be all that more difficult than unburying a large pot and trying to lift that out instead.

Tony
 
I have been thinking about one of these, using one of those pre-formed ponds to bury into the ground and fill with peat/sand. I also was thinking of Northern cp only(ie S purpurea ssp purpurea and temperate Drosera). Hopefully the Summers won't be too warm, but I was wondering with a set-up like this, if I could get flowering Sarracenia (and seed eventually)?

Cheers,

Joe
 
  • #10
Depends where you live. Here in NE florida I cannot grow rotundifolia, northern originating intermedia or filiformis ssp. filiformis outside.
 
  • #11
[b said:
Quote[/b] (technoracer @ Mar. 05 2005,6:06)]i'm picturing a round area, maybe 5' in diameter and about a foot deep, lined to hold the soil and clean water.  i'm thinking about his so i won't have to water everyday (as i do in the heat of summer in ohio) and for a little landscaping effect at the house.  i know that i'll have to mulch for the winters, but i think that it'll pretty much take care of it's self most of the summer, provided i can keep the squirrels out of it (fencing and a moat around the outside?).  should i keep the plants in their post, and just bury the whole pot in the soil?  that would allow the plants to pull from the same water sourse, could look attractive, and would make it easy to dig up and divide the plants when needed.  
does anyone have a permanant install bog garden?  have any picts or tips to just comments in general?  what do ya think!?!

peace,
technoracer
Click to expand...
My bog is 18" deep, but 12" should do it (unless, as Tony states, you have large, mature sarracenia).  It is permanant.  My liner is not punctured.  I have no problem with the water sitting too long and if it was punctured I am sure that it would dry too fast.

I have a layered mix in the bog, trying to copy a natural compound.  It consist of peat, LFS, perlite (yes perlite  
smile_r_32.gif
, but not much), vermculite(sp), sand (good stuff), lava rock and clay.  It is feed by a pond that is adjacent.  I collect water in two 30 gallon cans to supply the pond when it gets dry. (I have another 30 gallon can and 30-1 gallon separates for the greenhouse and indoor plants)

Bogs are not self sustaining and take a good amount of work.  Weeds easily encroach so pull them early.  I have sarracenia and vft living happily out there.  I put in some intermedia and utric this last year so we shall see how they fared when I uncover the bog this week.

My plants are not in pots, but actually in the bog.  They are growing rapidly and are not difficult to divide.  I keep them labeled, but I also keep backups in the greenhouse.  I us iris and canna for shading purposes.  I will post some pictures tomorrow.

Pots will be detrimental to what you want. You want the plants remain moist while you are gone, but if the plants are in pots, they are limited to the soil and moisture held in that pot. They keep moisture in, but they also can keep it out. Give the roots room and watch those babies grow.

I use pine needles and hay for a composting in the winter.
 
  • #12
Joe, can it on a weekend and I will come help. Have plants, will travel.
 
  • #13
I've got several inground little fens and bogs (including the kiddie pool version that holds about 200 gallons) and I started excavating for a huge one last fall that I didn't finish. Depth is about 14" in the small round one, 18" in the others, and will be about 18-24" in the biggest new bog.

I have redirected my gutters and my sump pump is trenched underground to empty into the new large bog. Other than that, I have rain barrels now to collect water.

My twist on bogs is just another to consider. A bog is pretty much nothing more than waterlogged organic matter like sphagnum. Bogs don't have pumps or filters. Bogs, for all practical purposes, have no drainage. Bogs are nutrient deficient and the plants best suited for them have adapted to this type of an environment. I prefer acid bogs but I do have 3 little fens.

To start, determine what you will want to line your bog with. EPDM pond liner, roofing liner, kiddie pools, or anything that isn't metal. The first bog I created was made from a round kiddie pool that was about 14" deep. Some people convert their former ponds to bogs so basically anything goes.

Pick a site that preferably gets about 6 hours of sun a day if not more. Have fun digging. I chose to set my kiddie pool in sand to best level it but there are other ways to do this. I think if I had to do it all over again, I'd use Firestone roofing liner for that bog as I would be able to get a more interesting shape as opposed to basic round.

OK now you'll have a nice hole in the ground that has some sort of a liner in it. I like acid bogs so these directions are for an acid bog. For the 14" depth, I filled the bottom with silica sand up to about 4". From there I added my baled sphagnum. Now you will have to begin the arduous process of adding water. Oh what fun! This process will be much easier for you if you thoroughly mix the sphagnum and sand first.

Water is an issue in a bog. Preferably, one would want rain water. Never use tap water. I was fresh out of rain water and had not begun to gather it from my gutters so I used bottled distilled water for set up. Distilled water or RO water are the only alternatives to rain water in my humble opinion. There is a method to the madness. A man who has forgotten more than I have ever known about bogs told me to never ever ever use anything but rain water or distilled water because, "TAP WATER WILL KILL A BOG GARDEN IN A SEASON AS WILL ANY SORT OF FERTILIZER!" Sorry to shout in this thread but that is how he wrote it to get his point across to me. OK, he's right. I checked it out and the truth of the matter is that minute amounts of dissolved minerals picked up from the air is how natural bogs are formed and is their only source of nutrients. Well, start adding your water now. Your bog will need to be anaerobic. This means you have to work out all the air. Sphagnum likes to hold air. The man who helped me told me to get in the bog and start stomping around in it as if I was squishing grapes for wine. I stomped it, squished it, kneaded it with my hands and I tell you it was sort of fun even though I felt as if the sand was removing layers of my skin. I added more sphagnum and added more distilled water until I brought the mixture up to the rim of the kiddie pond. Then it was time to work in pine needles. I chose white pine needles because they were what was recommended as a source of acid however there are other sources of acid that may work equally well. I added 3 grocery bags full of white pine needles to my bog. I did take a scissors and cut them in half. These pine needles will small you and they left hives and welts all over me when I was mixing them in. I am not into pain so it would be my recommendation to not add the pine needles until after you have mixed the sand, water, and sphagnum to a consistency of a German Chocolate Cake batter consistency. By the way, it is perfectly natural for the majority of the sand to settle to the bottom. I won't use perlite because over time it compacts and there is the issue of it "escaping" which was mentioned by another member. I also do not use vermiculite only because it is allegedly carcinogenic although there are many who believe no real cause for concern regarding health risks from vermiculite exists.  

That's really all there is to an acid bog. Now select your plants and try real hard to make sure that your sources are propagating and not wild collecting the plants they offer for sale. I am told it takes about 2 years to establish a bog. I wish the friend who held my hand while I created my first bog was a member here as he was such a wealth of information and truly was an inspiration. I have no doubt there is so much more he could add. I feel like a little kid trying to walk around in my Mom's high heels so please remember I am the student not the master. My bogs are only in their second year so I am totally new to this but still loving my carnivorous plants and bog orchids and the environment I created for them.

PS- I borrow a mortar mixer now.  Sure wish I had thought of using one of those a while ago when I was creating my first bogs and fens. Most people don't have access to one so don't feel bad if you have to "manually" mix your medium.

Best wishes to you
 
  • #14
Somehow I have a mental image of you stomping all over the media, like Lucille Ball and the grapes.
 
  • #15
Tee he, no not me. I got so tired from stomping around barefoot in there that I finally sat in it and reached around squishing what ever I could reach with my hands for about an hour or so before I flat out quit. Didja ever wonder why the name LittleDirtBall stuck to me?
 
  • #17
Here's the start of my little round Kiddie pool bog when it was first set up-
6439c5aa.jpg

At the time this photo was taken, the bog was resting in sand and leveled but I hadn't filled sand in around the sides yet.

Here's how I addressed the edge-
374b60f0.jpg

The cultured stone was basically just set in place at that time so I could get an idea of how it would look. It now completely covers the edge and you can't see any of that aqua blue at all.

Here's the mortar mixer I now use-
703392d9.jpg

Beats the heck out of stomping around to try to mix those bog ingredients and it goes a heck of a lot faster.
 
  • #18
excellent posts everyone! keep em comming! i know that ozzy has a kiddie pool bog, where are his witty comments at?

laura, thank you for posting! are there certian plants you think do better in a fen compared to an acid bog (i'm thinking acid bog here)? i have pine trees in my yard, but don't know what kind they are. does it really matter that much?

thanks again everyone! i'm having computer issues at my house, so i can't get on here much till i get it fix. keep the posts comming!

peace,
tech...
 
  • #19
Most plants have very specific cultural requirements. Although I am not all that familiar with carnivorous plants, I am somewhat familiar with North American native species (specifically east of the Rockies) that would be most likely to thoroughly enjoy and thrive in either environment. In what state do you reside and let me know whether you are going for a fen or an actual acid bog.  I also need to know how much light your site will receive and I'll try my best.

Also too, the pines you have may not necessarily be the greatest source of acid. I from time to time increase the acidity by putting a Tblsp of vinegar or two in a watering can of about 2 gallons and sprinkle.  Pine needles are absolutely great for mulching over your bog at the close of the season in that they don't compact like leaves. The following spring, you just "peel" off your mulch. I couldn't get my hands on enough pine needles this past fall so I ended up layering. Pine needles, then a layer of leaves, pine needles, and another layer of leaves. It seems to be ok.
 
  • #20
thanks for the replies everyone!

i have decided not to install an in ground bog garden (for reasons i won't go into here). so now i'm onto large containers. i saw some 20 gallon buckets at home depot last night, and am thinking about picking up 2 or 3 of them to grow my outdoor plants in.

the problems i forsee include:
-i'm zone 5 ohio, and am not sure if the plants will survive my winters outdoors, above the ground. moving a 20 gallon bucket, full of laterlogged peat might be hard by myself. these buckets have rope handles, but i am positive they will not hold up to what i have planned for them!
-i am not sure about the uv stability of these buckets.

for the past 2 summers, these plants have recieved full sun for most of the day.

i'm open to suggestions on other larger containers that i might be able to use. remember, i'm looking for things larger enough that i will only have to water once a week (even if it holds 10 gallons of water or more), and is uv stable.
maybe i should be looking for those large whisky barrels?

thanks,
tech...
 
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