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Thread: Dew ID Please..

  1. #9
    CPlantaholic's Avatar
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    Alright, I'll still note the possibility of D. dielsiana then. Yeah, I just found this diagram from another forum (which sounds similar to the one you described), and it sort of helps, but as you said, due to variability, it is hard to tell even between 2 clones grown in different locations...

    Drosera dielsiana is #5 and Drosera natalensis is #6:
    http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/.../pics/0075.gif

    so, i'd say what i have isn't either of the 2 pictured..(maybe hybrids?)...since the seeds have never been that elongated? Yeah, I agree- a lot of work needs to be done, lol.
    Last edited by CPlantaholic; 09-07-2010 at 03:22 PM.
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  2. #10
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    I don't know about that Aaron, the descriptions by Dr. Roux in "Flora of South Africa" and Laudon in "Flora Zambesiaca" only mention hairs on the petiole not the lamina. Your plants are definitely pillose ("hairy") on the lamina.

    None of the photographs of the flowers here show any amount of detail that would help.

    The only photos I've found of D. dielsiana in situ so far are these from Zimbabwe which don't look much like any of the plants pictured above in this thread:

    http://www.zimbabweflora.co.zw/speci...cies_id=124760

    But then again conditions vary and many of the South Africans appear to be highly variable.

    Anywho, how does one go about selecting "type" specimens? It seems to me one would look for plants that best represent the population as a whole. You wouldn't want the largest, most colorful or unusual specimen - you'd shoot for the average or median. Where as if you were collecting for cultivation (especially with $$$ in mind) you'd might want the most outstanding examples or "sports". There's a lot of artificial selection that goes on in cultivation.
    Last edited by Not a Number; 09-07-2010 at 08:34 PM.
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    Warren- is there a link online to the articles you referred to that describe these species or are these exclusively in print?
    So, if D. dielsiana is pillose exclusively on the petiole, then the picture on the ICPS D. dielsiana page is also really D. natalensis, then? It looks like hairs are also on the lamina in that picture.

    Unfortunately, the picture was from a far distance away and the stigmas blend into the flower color too much. They look like narrow "V"'s attached to the tip of the style, if that helps at all....
    Last edited by CPlantaholic; 09-07-2010 at 09:47 PM.
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  4. #12
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    The descriptions I've found online:

    http://plants.jstor.org/flora/flosa001210177600019
    Roux: Styles forked from the base with the stigmatic apex spoon-shaped, membranous.
    Note: this is credited to A.A. Obermeyer on Omnisterra:
    http://www.omnisterra.com/botany/cp/...tm#D.dielsiana
    http://plants.jstor.org/flora/fz3277
    Laudon: styles 3, 2 mm. long, 2-partite to the base with spathulate apices
    Does the seed have a honeycomb texture on them? This doesn't appear to be present on the photo of the seed Mach posted nor on any of the seed I recently received.
    Last edited by Not a Number; 09-08-2010 at 03:04 AM.
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  5. #13
    CPlantaholic's Avatar
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    Thanks for the links!
    my seeds don't have the honeycomb texture either...
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    As to the selection of type, here is another thorny question! You are correct, the type should be as typical as possible obviously, but the problem in the SAF species is their variability across their range and who can look at every plant in every population? Dr. Gibson cautioned me strongly not to place too much faith in this concept. Taxonomic opinion is only as good as the depth of the study and in SAF that would be very deep indeed. The hard part of observational taxonomy is the dependency on the protolouge publications, in this case Excell and Launders paper. That was back in 1956 and who now knows how deeply they studied the genus in SAF? This is why herbarium sheets are so important with their range data. More can be learned by assessing a large number of well identified individuals than from input gathered from any single type. I recall Drl Schlauer told me once D. dielsiana had the third largest distribution of any of the SAF species, so I would think there would be many herbarium sheets to compare, a long and tedious process! Hopefully the authors visited many different localities in their research, and their conclusions are sound.

    Currently I have abandoned the whole species concept regarding SAF rosetted droserae and do not believe growers will ever be certain of what they are growing.
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