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Thread: What was the final total from the '05 auction?

  1. #25
    Capslock's Avatar
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    In light of the unknowns with the Casper situation, I'd like to amend my statement a little bit. I don't KNOW that he stole money, as I don't know all the facts.

    But he has it all. And he's disappeared, so the assumption is that SOMETHING has gone horribly wrong, and there's still a responsibility to find out what. Casper could have become ill, who knows? But the circumstances are highly suspicious. My guess is he spent the money, and now doesn't know how to get out of the situation, so he disappeared, but that's just a guess. For all the people who contributed to the auction, the responsible thing is to pursue it and find out.

    What I'd like to know is who is proposing we do nothing (after all, that's what's happening), and why? Is there something we're missing here? It's been over a year - it's not going to resolve itself. Is it really not worth pursuing? Maybe it isn't, but I'd like, at least, to hear someone make that case.

    Capslock

    PS: Even at the hobbyist "club" level, the NASC is a worthwile pursuit. We shouldn't let it die because nobody has the time/money/expertise to take it to the next level.
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  2. #26
    SirKristoff is a poopiehead Ozzy's Avatar
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    You know I really can't believe what I'm reading. The NASC has and always have had one purpose. To make rare plants common to relieve poaching pressures. I had some other conservation goals that I think we could achieve, but that was the purpose.
    We started off with the auction two years ago. Casper was a regular and trusted member here. So somebody (I think Bugweed) chose to have him collect the money. Was that a mistake? HELL YES IT WAS A MISTAKE!! But what the hell do you people what us to do about it?? Do you want me to pack up my guns and go hunt him down like a ahyuking animal? The fact is very clear. We messed up. We had a person to collect the money for us and he disappeared. How many ahyuking times can we say that? How many time can we have the same people bring up and complain about the same situation? Life is full of mistakes and road blocks, deal with it. We made a mistake, we were knocked on our *****. We could do like what you want us to do and just sit here and cry about it until all the plants are gone. Or we can get back up, dust our selves off and move on. I can tell you this, we don't have time to make going after Casper our number one priority. With the current building rates, by the time we go through court and all that bullpoop the plants are going to be GONE. Let me say that again, the plants are going to be GONE. Is the purpose getting revenge on Casper or is it to save what little plants we can?
    I want to get our money back as much as anybody, I donated to that auction too. He has my money too. I think we are on a right track with Wolfstryker. I think he'll get something done for us. We tried to get Rose to help us with this before but she didn't feel comfortable doing it.
    We are going to try, but my number one priority hasn't changed, I still want to conserve some plants. I see rapid development every darn day, I see former cp sites that are now restaurants, golf courses, vacation homes for the rich, resorts, apartments, new homes, highways I can go on and on and on and on. We are losing our sites and plants because rich people want to come here and live in the winter. Then they want to come back for a week during the summer so they can swim. They are coming here and ruining our land just like they ahyuked theirs up in the north. And here we are crying and whining about $1000. When cp's are being bull dozed every day.
    This is directed to the people that keep complaining about Casper. If you want to do something then do it. If you want to go after him, then do it. But get the ahyuk out of our way and let us get our act straight so we can save some plants. If you're not going to help us GET THE ahyuk OUT OF OUR WAY!!

    Laura said that somebody said that we should be a video of how to destroy an organization. And she's right, the best way to bring down a nonprofit organization is to invite a bunch of know it all whiners to come in and cry about everything that don't go their way. We are proof that works real fast.

    Capslock said "it seems that there are some ambitions that are beyond the scope of the entity"

    I almost totally agree with you. But to me it seems that there are some people that have ambitions that are the beyond the scope of our entity. Not the board members, but some people that seem to have an unrealistic time lines. ME, Bugweed and PAK are all that is really involved right now. Rose did a great job, but she disappeared too. We can't just sit back and wait for her. We need to get moving and if she ever wants back in, she is welcome.
    What we need to do is to get a little organization before we go public again. We need to figure out where we are going with this and to create and achieve some realistic goals. When that is done, then we will start asking for more volunteers. The problem was we had to many volunteers but wasn't ready for them to do anything, so they lost interest. This time I want to be able to put people to work.

    One last thing, If you don't have the same priority that we have, which is saving plants, then please step out of our way and let us do it ourselves.

  3. #27
    Capslock's Avatar
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    Ozzy,
    I'm sure this is frustrating for you, but many of us have NO IDEA what happened or what's been done or what's planned. When I ask questions about it, it may sound like I'm challenging you, but really I just wanted to know what's going on. I heard after the fact that Casper had absconded, and then nothing. Others may have had the benefit of repeated discussions about it, but most of us are just in the dark.

    I agree with you about the mission and importance of the NASC. Time's a wastin! But I think the ouside impression is that it shouldn't take much time to at least do the minimum steps in trying to track Casper down. On the possibility, for example, that he had some personal issue and ended up spending some of the money, panicking and disappearing so he didn't have to confront it, maybe a single communication to him can clear it up and let him "re-appear." For example, we could work a deal with him to pay it back in installments. It would be a weight off his back, and anything we got back would be worthwhile. Maybe you're right and nothing more can be done that is worth the time and effort. Maybe the best thing to do is dust ourselves off and move on.

    But the other thing is that the Casper incident, much as everyone would like to move on, has cast a pall over the NASC. It reduced people's confidence in participating. You're probably right in that it's not all that much money, and certainly anything involving lawyers or lawsuits is going to be way more cost than it's worth. But there are almost-free things that can be done (which sound like they're happening). And doing SOMETHING, even if it doesn't amount to anything and it's just casual brainstorming about it, would reduce the anxiety about the situation.

    In the meantime, you're right, and I'm the last one that would want to get in the way of the important stuff: saving plants. I participated in both auctions, and will continue to in the future. I just wish I could devote more time than that, but business realities intrude. I can help grow, buy, and donate plants, but not much more. But if all goes well, I'd like someday to be able to buy up some land in order to save it from development. Or at least be able to lend some legwork or other assistance. You have my support in whatever way I can lend it. It seems that there's a logjam at the moment. Whatever I can do to help get the things unclogged and working functionally again I'll do, even if it's just shutting up for a while.

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  4. #28

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    I will be interested to hear what Phil finds out from his attorney. Obviously, if any legal action can be taken, the settlement would have to cover the legal fees.
    If I remember correctly, both auctions were semi-spontaneous. If it becomes a annual event at the same time every year, people can plan accordingly(propagate, save money to buy) and these auctions will surpass $3000 everytime(especially if Phil continues to donate such excellent plants-the Peter is doing great!).
    I was not a member, but even if the funds went to only rescue missions of doomed sites(covering gas and whatever expeditures that are necessary) , than I am happy the money is going to a worthy cause. As has been said, "save the plants."

    Cheers,

    Joe

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Oct. 14 2005,7:36)]I think we are on a right track with Wolfstryker. I think he'll get something done for us. We tried to get Rose to help us with this before but she didn't feel comfortable doing it.
    I guess I was not clear in my previous post. 0zzy, I did not respond to your pm because I felt I was clear in my post. All I am in a position to share with you is that Casper is alive. You want him, you need to put forth the effort of contacting the proper authorities and reporting the money gone. Real simple, get his his full name and last known address, take his birthdate from this website, have PAK give you his phone number, get his email address from the board members and turn it over to the proper authorities along with how much money he had which was around 2k I think I heard. How hard is it. Report the money gone. After you find him pay a lawyer to serve him. I gave all information that I legally can concerning Casper, in that he is alive. All other information about him I cannot legal give out at this juncture. F.O.I.A does not come into effect until a case has been closed. Thus I am in the same position that Rose was in. I apoligize if my first post made it appear as if I would be able to give out more informtion.

    Concerning what can be done about Casper a simple call to your State Police by the acting President of the NASC at the time of the '04 auction will get the ball rolling and then it will be in there hands little other effert will be required by any individual.

    I for one am going to second Laura & Phils comments that they would like this years money to be donated to The Nature Conservancy or to Botanique. When I participated in the auction (both donating material & bidding) I did so under the pretext that the money was going to be used to SAVE PLANTS. Not for lawyers fees, and certainly not to sit somewhere in absolute limbo.

    I belive there is frustration on the part of most people involved and the fact that they people that participated in the auction have been in the dark on what is happening with there money only seems to make it worse.

    Wolf
    You don't need an iron chest if you have a sharp brain and a silk tongue.


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  6. #30

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    Ozzy, take a chill pill and get a grip. Nobody is really attacking anyone, but I see real concern for the NASC as a working body. Whatever happens at this point, is up to the members. Myself, I would rather grow than be El Presidente, and I think some things are missing. Mostly (yes, Ozzy, here I go again) information. Keeping people informed has been sadly lacking, even word that nothing is happening at the moment is better than no word at all. Well, I have had enough, NO word at all, thank you. INFORMATION PLEASE!!! Where are we, where are we going, and how do we plan to get there? Start asking questions, and culling through various ideas, and work behind the scenes, as an interested group. We sure aren't doing anything at the moment, so I don't know about you, but I am putting down some location seed, and in a couple of years, they will be ready. I will post what has been planted, and how many, and when they will be ready for homes. Anything else, will be freely given as rhizome cuts come ready. (Get set, Laura!) I am working by myself at the moment (I think), but if anyone else is doing anything, how about sharing it with the rest of us. Might as well DO something until the rest of the legalities are taken care of. Do the website, that would be a great help, and be a place for us all to gather and share seedling info and location plants. NO FIGHTING, OR POINTING FINGERS! Lets roll up the sleeves, and go to work. Forget the President stuff, and let's organize ourselves to do this thing until we are comfortable with dealing with each other and working together. Try to be patient, Laura. We will work at this slowly. Barry told me the ICPS took all this time to become really known and a real operating body. They started in 1975, and they just came into their own over a long period of time, and obtained credibility. So, lets go, if you want to, and we will give it a real shot. Anyone else??
    45 yrs. growin\'
    Founder NASC

  7. #31
    Nepenthes Specialist nepenthes gracilis's Avatar
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    And so the dagger hath been sheathed.......

  8. #32

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    Thanks NepenthesGracilis, your comments just got me about 10 more PMs and e-mails that I won't be responding to. Life isnít exactly a bowl of cherries just yet and people are out there upset about the auctions and feel the people in control now won't go after Casper and will use the money inconsistently with why it was raised. Not much I can or am willing to do about that any longer and people need to speak for themselves and express their concerns.

    Bugs, patience is not one of my virtues. Never has been and never will be and definitely isn't when I see a freight train coming straight at me. Sorry Bugweed but I will not expose myself to liability as a result of the inability or unwillingness of others to act professionally, responsibly, and in accordance with the few established rules that existed. I wanted it to be perfectly clear where I stood through out this three ring circus just in case anyone points a finger at me and says Laura shouldacoulda. Really sorry Bugs, I've lost the faith. My prior experiences with Boards have all been extremely positive. The NASC was the exception. I've never seen so many people going in so many different directions in my entire life. So now, I think I will follow your lead and work by myself. I'll just grow (and kill) by my lonely with my 4 CP buddies and continue to pass extras on to newcomers and schools.

    0zzy, I feel real bad about what I'm going to type but I don't think you wanted to get the money back if it meant that your friend Casper might get arrested or else you would have piped up at one of those Board meetings and stated you were interested in my offer to fund a skip search as well as accepting my money to consult with an attorney in Nebraska which is where the NASC was going to be incorporated. I can appreciate that. I have friends who I wouldn't want to see under a microscope.

    Unlike 0zzy who faithfully attended meetings, Bugweed couldn't show to any for personal reasons BUT he was up front about why he couldnít show. PAK showed up for a portion of maybe two Board meetings and even then she wasn't on time or left early. Although she wasn't present either time I offered to shell out my own money to help the NASC move forward by putting this behind them, she sure did make it well known that Casper was her friend when any opportunity presented itself and she is a moderator so people backed off. I canít count how many times people commented that they felt intimidated by her.

    I have difficulty believing Bugweed is currently involved in much of anything other than growing his plants and plugging along like he always did. If voicing his opinion that Casper should be pursued and turning over his presidency to 0zzy is considered being active, well then I guess my definition of active differs from that of 0zzyís. Speaking of which, 0zzy should have been officially nominated and the Board should have been called to meet so they could have officially voted him into office, That would have been the proper way to handle this. Everyone likes 0zzy and he would have been a shoe in.

    [QUOTE]ME, Bugweed and PAK are all that is really involved right now.[/QUOTE} FACT-That is by choice. Last I read, Noah was asking why nobody showed up at the Board meeting in July that had been scheduled. Before that you and I showed up at quite a few and hung out for quite a while waiting and everyone else was a no show other than Noah. It looks to me as if you and PAK went off on your own. That's perfectly fine too but please don't try to call what ever is going on now a sanctioned NASC activity. None of the other Board members had any idea you two were meeting and they certainly were not called upon to join you or your assistant. It was crystal clear there was a Board that elected Executive Board members and we know who they are. The instant PAK resigned, the Board should have been called to meet to select a new Secretary. The instant Bugweed resigned, the Board should have been called to meet to elect a new President. The moment you all realized that Copper was gone, the Board should have been called to meet to select a new Vice President. Once those positions were filled, then and only then, should the Executive Board have been meeting and minutes needed to be recorded and shared with the regular Board and then posted in open forum. You two want to go it on your own then please do so but please don't pretend to want to be a not for profit if new rules are being created as you so desire by excluding the handful of people who were interested in contributing. Right now all it looks like is that a handful of people want to have auctions so that they can do their thing and save plants. It doesn't work that way. Read what Rose wrote. Read what Tamlin wrote. Read what Hortman wrote. Read what April wrote. How many people have repeatedly tried to tell everyone to function as a unit and to fully disclose. People all but banged their heads into walls to get you people to work as a team. You can't go out doing your own thing expecting people to fund your dreams. If it is down to you and PAK by choice because you two don't want to include anyone else in any decision making process, this is perfectly fine but let's call a spade a spade, eh?

    There are two choices as I see it. Report Casper to the proper authorities. Close out this yearís auction by listing every person who didnít pay or send plants. Let go of the money and move forward at a casual club level (find a new name for your club) as suggested by Capslock. This is actually what has been happening anyway and Iíd be in favor of this action.

    OR

    Report Casper to the proper authorities. Close out this yearís auction by listing every person who didnít pay or send plants. Hire an attorney and incorporate out the gate right now, schedule regular Board meetings followed by an Executive Session (expect people to attend), and buy insurance. Let it be known that nothing happens unless it is approved by the Board. Volunteers, regardless of their capacity, should not be allowed to go off into little groups making decisions that affect others or they should be shown the door. It has to be a team. If slots for Executive positions canít be filled, close up shop with dignity and revert to a casual club with a different name.

    I still have no desire to be an Executive Board member. I personally have no desire to be anything with the NASC any longer. The NASC doesn't really exist and I am numb. I have never seen so many people thrown in front of a bus before and all the lies and secrets have given me a headache. So many lies and so many secrets. It isnít wholesome and I donít feel good about being associated with the NASC any longer. I, like others, need to feel a team is cohesive and assembled ďfor a greater goodĒ or there is no point to the exercise.

    For me, I will be around. I still do my thing with kids and I still do my thing with native flora and native fauna and I will continue to volunteer my time with professional organizations. CPs are my pleasure, my escape. I'll still share my location plants with not for profit organizations that will use them for education or reintroduce them to the wild. Other than that, I'll stick to the 4 CP buddies I have while continuing to buy my plants and I will share any extras with newcomers or schools. It's really more "me" to stick to education anyway as that's where my interests lie. Mind you, education is not my expertise but I do get a kick out of creating programming for kids and working with them.

    If there are any more auctions, perhaps people who donate plants could be provided a choice of where they wish the proceeds from their high bidder to go. That will solve a lot of problems as people will have only themselves to blame if the organization they choose has issues.

    And I do think the proceeds from this yearís auction need to go to TNC and/or Botanique. This has gone on long enough to be an embarrassment. If I don't hear anything by the end of the month, I'll just total up what the plants I donated sold for and ask Terra to cut checks less the fees for any people who remitted payment via PayPal and ask them to send half to TNC and half to Botanique. I certainly never wanted my money funding a casual club and I certainly never wanted my money funding whatever you want to call the NASC now. It certainly isn't a viable entity in my opinion and hasnít been for a while and never will be.

    Take Care all

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