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Thread: What was the final total from the '05 auction?

  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JBL @ Oct. 15 2005,6:41)]Quote from Nepenthes Gracillis:
    "...big deal a few bucks were stolen from you from some ransack runof the mill people. That can happen in real life. This argument is pointless and will not get any better, so thats my little tidbit. I have a life to live and I'm not bickering over $20 or so "stolen" from me."

    Quote from JBL:
    It seems that the ones raising the biggest stink did not particiapte in, and were not affected by the auction. I wonder why that is?
    I'll tell you why that is. I did not want to go public with this information before so hear me well.

    I am not an attorney. I repeat, I am NOT an attorney. I DID consult an attorney on this subject and made him priveledged to any and all postings relating to the auctions, NASC, the Casper scenario, etc, etc... And this is what HE told me, but please....DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER!

    This IS a much bigger deal than you think. Here's how:

    Th NASC is not now nor has it ever been an incorporated organization in any way, shape or form. It is not a registered entity with a tax id or a Non Profit status. Here's the ugly part. Being as it is still a club in all legal aspects and was operating under the guise that it WOULD be a registered entity in some way, shape or form...it has opened an opportunity for ANY member who participated in the 2004 auction by way of donated plant material or monies spent for auction winnings to seek legal recourse against ANY 'Executive' Board member who held a position at the time Casper disappeared with the 2004 auction monies AND had knowledge that he did so but did not act on his actions. Unfortunately this information is documented, printed and filed with names and associations.

    It gets uglier than this but I am not going any further with it. Please...PLEASE understand that the reason some of us are so emotional about the disappearance of the money and the lack of action being taken, even those of us who were NOT adversly affected by it in 2004, is because it can affect other people in a terrible way and we want to deflect these actions from taking place. Are any of you prepared to defend yourself with attorney fees if this should happen?

    It isn't now nor has it ever been a matter of "so this guy walked off with the money, big deal. Let's get on with life and continue to grow and spread our plants". The legal fact remains that Executive Board members who held positions at the time the money WAS <keyword> stolen and refused to take action on it can now THEMSELVES be liable for mail fraud or worse.

    We don't want this to happen. There IS the possibility that the NASC will never take root because of this. I didn't want to say these things but it has now become necessary. These are the 'loopholes' I thought may exist, and they do. It's the ugly truth folks. So what's it going to be? Shall we continue bashing each other until we piss the wrong person off and a lawsuit is filed?

    GO.....GET....CASPER! What ever the 'ahyuk' it takes. The first goal and/or legal responsibility here of (any former or active 'Executive' Board member during the 2004 alleged theft ordeal) should be to protect the innocent and punish the guilty, NOT THE PLANTS! Get yourself some insurance, an attorney, anything it takes to protect yourself. Just take some action.

    Again I repeat...I am NOT an attorney. I only consulted one and this is the information I was given. This is HIS opinion, not mine. I too just want peace and to grow my beloved plants.

  2. #42

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    Well its about time! Now the best thing is to find out what can be done from here, and do our best to either do it or not. I thank Phil for the truth, as it needed to be known. It is definitely news to me, but the law has a lot of twists and turns, and we usually learn it the hard way. I am still with Phil as far as donating the funds to Botanique/Nature Conservancy, and work out the rest from there. I hope Phil would help us out, to avoid any possible mishaps.
    45 yrs. growin\'
    Founder NASC

  3. #43
    Jeremiah Harris's Avatar
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    Guys I guess I'm still a little confused. I though long ago we considered the '04 auction money "lost" thatís why we decided to have one this year right?

    IMHO I really donít think money is a big issue right now. We have over 3k thatís it plenty to get us started. Like someone stated earlier we would make at least that every time we held an auction. I was not about to donate in the last one since it was an extremely bust time of year for me, with school, work and I had two back to back CCPS shows that May.

    -Jeremiah-

  4. #44

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    Now this is what we really want to hear; people willing to help each other, not hate each other. I don't know squat about the legal stuff and don't want to be dragged into any potential quagmire it could create. I don't know what help I can be, but I'm not going public with any more info from the attorney. JBL..your idea to keep this private to protect interested parties is sound advice.

    Peace to all.

    Phil

    Phil

  5. #45

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    Per request of someone very special to me, I call we have an immediate meeting of the board, and members, to discuss our options on pursuing the Casper incident. We should not let this ride! All legal types step up to the plate and help out, please! Time is wasting!
    45 yrs. growin\'
    Founder NASC

  6. #46
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Just a chime in (not to get off topic). I have been following along with the developements. As I have stated in the past I don't have the time for an executive board position. I feel I can best help with growing plants and organizing in that area. So keep me in mind when needed. Meanwhile I will expand my own Sarr. collection with location plants when possible.
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  7. #47

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    Thanks for the positive move, Tony. I will help all I can.
    45 yrs. growin\'
    Founder NASC

  8. #48

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    0zzy 0zzy 0zzy, I come back and find all this now. Review my posts and please look closely at how I worded things. You do not need to share my beliefs, they are mine. I am not responsible for how April words things however she is entitled to her beliefs also.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]You and April are the ones that came out saying he was a thief,
    Please look at the sequence of posts in threads and you will find she and I were not the first to raise concerns. Also please revisit what it is that I wrote. I never called him a thief. There was a member who did though and I believe his post was deleted. Perhaps that is why you thought we were the first ďthat came out saying he was a thiefĒ. I suppose Casper might be able to manufacture a cause of action to bring against the member who really did come out and call him a thief because heck, it seems like people can sue any one for anything these days but... the comments would have to be false. I seriously doubt Casper is going to go after that member because to do so could open himself up to a counter suit. In my state we can counter sue people who file groundless lawsuits or suits filed to harass another party. People think twice nowadays before they attempt to "vindicate" themselves at the expense of another by filing frivolous lawsuits. Sure did put a stop to the ďlet me get you backĒ mentality around here. I'm thinking other states just might have something similar so I doubt there is any need for anyone to lose any sleep over this one. For the record, I believe Casper is a thief and should be pursued. Believing a person is a thief is different than stating a person is a thief.

    I hate to say this but I'm crossing my fingers and toes and sort of hoping April doesn't find this thread because she just quit smoking a few days ago and I'm too tired to deal with people taking comments personally right now. April... if you read this... xoxoxoxo

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]To fix that, I decided to get all of our paperwork in order, and have some type of organization before I sent out the word that there were going to be some major changes. I had planned to send an email to everybody that was involved last time and let them know what was happening, but I haven't got to it yet.
    If it is a casual club, there are no issues with what you did and you can make major changes any time you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]You said we should have called a board meeting. How many have we called and nobody showed up?
    0zzy, I lost count of how many Board meetings were called that only you and I showed up to. I donít know what to say other than that people often start out with the best intentions of participating and then things happen. Volunteers willing and able to work in any capacity are worth their weight in gold these days. Only a small percentage of those who commit seem to follow through by finishing what they start so there is generally a high drop out rate. Perhaps a casual club is in everyone's best interests for now.

    Now NepenthesGracilis, I don't believe anyone here is or ever has questioned why Casper was chosen to handle the money. Judgment errors of character are made all the time, no big deal. Human behavior is rather unpredictable. I doubt this guy started out rubbing his hands together while saying, ďI think Iíll just disappear with the money today.Ē We should never judge people by the mistakes they make but by how they correct them. Iím sure if he magically reappeared with the money even this late in the game, no one would be anything but more than gracious and willing to drop the issue to move forward. I am relatively sure no one is vindictive here.

    I don't balance my own checkbook. You would not want me handling money for an auction. Trust me on this one, Dustin. Copper had instructed me to step in for her and handle the auction while she was gone. I had started some preliminary footwork at her direction which had included securing the pro bono services of a law firm to handle the remittances from high bidders. I believed at that point in time it would be best to allow a bonded third party to handle the money and truly did not want to burden Terra. Bugweed turned the auction over to PAK because she had handled the previous auction. PAK handled it her way and as far as I am concerned, the money from this year's auction is as safe as if it had been handled by a bonded third party that deposited it in a trust account.

    You are correct Dustin, I donít have many Sarracenia compared to Bugweed or others out there. I also donít hang on to multiples of the same plant preferring to share them with others. I frequently give away plants that I have only one of to people who need them. I do actually have an incredibly nice collection of plants indigenous to the Midwest. If I am not mistaken, you were the recipient of a few Jacks and Bloody Butcher Trilliums from my property. I like plants that are indigenous to North America. Sarracenia are indigenous. I like wetlands even more than I like native plants.

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] And on another side note, why do you even care about the Sarracenia "conservancy"?
    I would classify myself an environmentalist. Is it ok with you if I play in the same sandbox with other likeminded people? I have some nice toys and I know how to share.

    Backing up to Jeremyís question, the NASC does need a President as well as other Officers to move forward. Ghosts in Office to be able to incorporate arenít a good idea and people holding more than one Office are an even worse idea in my humble opinion. A casual club with a different name does not need a President.

    Jeremy, there is a problem with the domain of www.NASarracenia.org that I paid to register for the NASC as a gift. Rose had the password. I had it but as I am not computer literate and had no need to have access to the website, I gave it to her and I honestly have no idea what it was and it may very well have been changed by now. Iím sure sheíd share it but sheís not available to ask. My personal friend owns the server that donated the webhosting to the NASC. Mind you that is a .org and the Board may not want to give the impression that the NASC is a bona fide not for profit so it might not be prudent to work on it right about now. Best to let the Board determine if they want work done on a website. And should they decide to get a website up and running, it might be best to register a new domain of www.NASarracenia.net or .us or .com or anything but .org.

    JBL, I donít recall the actual percentage of Hurricane Creek that reverts to type but I think you are close. Maybe it was 20% or 30%.

    Bugweed-
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] Laura, too bad you have no patience.
    Patience isnít one of my strong points but I can think of things far worse ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ] Laura. I am trying to get you to help us, one step at a time, slowly evloveÖ I am growing. Anyone want to help?? Laura??
    Bugs, I have to refresh your memory here. I have only been growing these plants for 3 years. This coming spring will be my 4th year. I do not want anything rare. I actually donít want anything that I canít easily replace if something goes wrong. I would have a heart attack if something happened to a plant from an extirpated site. I am growing a lot of cultivars now and Iíll be germinating more seed. Thatís all Iím comfortable doing right now. It was a tough summer here with intense heat and drought and as you are aware, a winter drought can be even tougher on plants so hereís hoping I get good snow cover to insulate the plants I have growing outside. Additionally, I live in a heavily wooded area and critters abound. Squirrels are particularly rough on the plants but the English House Sparrows are right in there with the squirrels trying to destroy everything they can. In the winter, moles and voles and deer do their best to uproot and strip everything down. Do you really want me to help you all grow? Best for me to take a raincheck for a few years until I get some more experience under my belt. Now if you want help with working on educational programming for kids to work with the plants being grown for a casual club, count me in.

    For what itís worth, you called an immediate Board Meeting and I think it should be done in open forum. Everyone on Jeremiahís list above should be contacted personally to include the person who was the President just before you. If it is decided that the thread will be in open forum (perhaps a good idea to seriously consider doing so), people not on Jeremyís list should be asked to please not post in that thread. Casper disappeared with the money not any Board members. Thereís nothing to hide. One thought, the Board should really vote on whether to pursue Casper or not before they discuss optionsÖ. one step at a time, slowly evolveÖ Sorry Bugs, couldnít help myself on that one.

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