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PlantAKiss
Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, Engl
Last I checked with Phil, money was still straggling in...but the total was over $3,000. I will check with him to see what the current total is. He is holding the money for now.
As for the 2004 auction money...the person holding that money disappeared off the face of the earth. We have tried contacting him with no success. We will be deciding what to do about that but I'm not sure we have any legal recourse with it.
Hopefully we will be using part of the new funds towards getting legal status (papers drawn up for not-for-profit status) and then decide how the rest of the funds will be spent. We need to determine what will be the most important issues that need financial attention first.
Things have been on hold temporarily. Rose is still having some health issues and is also very busy at work (last I heard from her)...but soon we will be gathering the group for some reorganization. We might be jockeying some positions around to better situate us to move forward.
As for the 2004 auction money...the person holding that money disappeared off the face of the earth. We have tried contacting him with no success. We will be deciding what to do about that but I'm not sure we have any legal recourse with it.
Hopefully we will be using part of the new funds towards getting legal status (papers drawn up for not-for-profit status) and then decide how the rest of the funds will be spent. We need to determine what will be the most important issues that need financial attention first.
Things have been on hold temporarily. Rose is still having some health issues and is also very busy at work (last I heard from her)...but soon we will be gathering the group for some reorganization. We might be jockeying some positions around to better situate us to move forward.
PAK as per the '04 auction you most certainly do have legal recourse. Anything from federal mail fraud, to larceny by converstion. Both of which would be federal crimes because money was sent across state lines.
Something needs to be done about the money from last year, it is unfair to the NASC and the people who participated in the auction to not pursue it. You must have Casper's real name and last known address. If you can pass it along to me via PM I can almost assure you that a current address can be found, at which time I can pass the situation on to the local authorities wherever he is found. Even if the money cannot be returned it is owed to the participants to pursue Casper for his legal responsibilities.
Regarding this years auction, I think it paramount that the people who participated either by donating iteams or by bidding on items be in the loop in how the money has been spent. It has been months since the auction and atleast to the people who are not on the board it seems as if the wheels have stopped turning and the money is just sitting still.
Wolf
Something needs to be done about the money from last year, it is unfair to the NASC and the people who participated in the auction to not pursue it. You must have Casper's real name and last known address. If you can pass it along to me via PM I can almost assure you that a current address can be found, at which time I can pass the situation on to the local authorities wherever he is found. Even if the money cannot be returned it is owed to the participants to pursue Casper for his legal responsibilities.
Regarding this years auction, I think it paramount that the people who participated either by donating iteams or by bidding on items be in the loop in how the money has been spent. It has been months since the auction and atleast to the people who are not on the board it seems as if the wheels have stopped turning and the money is just sitting still.
Wolf
Wolf, it seems that way to me too! Caspers real name was Paul Leubbert, and he hailed from--ready for this?------New Orleans! For all we know Paul could be dead, or could have lost everything. I asked Copper to pursue legal litigation, and was told there was nothing she could do. I didn't think so, but , she wouldn't do it. I was majorly disappointed that nothing would be done. So, as it stands right now, we have Caspers name, but no address. I have sent him plants, and like I always do, lost the address. If you wish to try to find the punk, feel free. I am all for it. I may still have his phone number, but at this point, I don't think it would do us any good.
Not so fast, I attended every Board Meeting other than one when we were on vacation in Hawaii for three weeks and I couldn't get to a computer and Copper's position was always that there was nothing she felt comfortable doing from a professional stand point. Each and every police department will have guidelines for conduct that vary based on laws in each state. To the best of my knowledge, she believed a conflict of interest might exist in so much as she is a Law Enforcement Officer herself. Cops just can't go poking around just because they have access to resources based on their profession. Furthermore, a decision to pursue him needed to be placed before the Board and approved. This didn't happen to the best of my knowledge. When there is a Board, individuals just can't go off making decisions on their own. It isn't a solo sport and people shouldn't be making decisions to act without the knowledge and consent of the entire Board. Needless to say, Rose would not have overstepped her professional boundaries. It's not her style.
I believe it to be blatantly obvious at this point in time that Paul's health most probably was not an issue as pertained to the disappearance of the NASC's money. I couldn't find an obituary out there on him and no missing person's report anywhere either. That sent up red flags for me. The money from 2004 was in Casper's care, custody, and control and it is gone... this is old news. It's no secret, I offered to fund a skip search at two NASC Board meetings. I also offered to fund a consultation with a practicing attorney in the state of origin after noticing a few inconsistencies. His full name and last known address were there for the taking in a thread at Terra (still probably are or PAK would have his address but having a last known phone number is a tremendous help) so my thoughts were that it wouldn’t have been difficult to locate him. For whatever reason, a few members weren't interested in pursuing this type of action back when I offered so I dropped it when I was basically told, "thanks but no thanks". It was a Board decision not to pursue Paul back then not Rose's. Bottom line, many originally believed something horrible had happened to Paul due to the steadfast faith in the man proclaimed by a few members here. As stated before in another thread; I, like many others, am now in the Bugweed camp on this. I too believe Paul did abscond with the money. Legal remedies are most certainly available as mentioned by Wolf. In the best interests of the NASC, a formal complaint should probably be drafted and filed if there are enough people interested in rolling up their sleeves to deal with the nuts and bolts of going forward with the NASC and helping Copper so she doesn’t have to go it on her own. Somebody would have to get the ball rolling with the knowledge and consent of whatever is left of the Board. Reporting the money gone to the appropriate authorities would be a good start. The Board should seriously consider reporting this to the USPS... can we say possible mail fraud? I suggested this avenue several times in the past. Paul accepted checks and money orders for high bids via common carrier (that would be the US Postal Service) on behalf of the NASC. For what it’s worth, I truly believe the missing money from last year needs to be addressed or this issue is going to continue to rear its ugly head undermining attempts to get this fledgling organization up and running. Not for profits are dependent upon an image portrayed to the public that must be above reproach. Scandal is a big turn off. The money is gone and to the best of my knowledge, no attempts are currently being made to pursue the young man who has it and no attempts were made to pursue him back when there were regular NASC meetings.
There have been no Board Meetings in months. Issue- regardless of whether the NASC is a not for profit or not, it currently has assets. I believe Federal ID #'s need to be applied for and a corporate tax return needs to be prepared and filed as well as a financial statement. A 501 (c ) (3) status can be applied for later and after (if) it is granted, the NASC could probably file a standard financial statement and a basic 990EZ however a tax lawyer or a CPA should be involved in the process. I feel bad that Terra Forums is stuck holding on to the '05 auction money as filings aren’t their responsibility but more importantly, if Rose comes back from being sick this could overwhelm her and then the NASC could be stuck looking for yet another person at the helm.
PlantAKiss resigned from the Board back in June. If Rose is sick and juggling work, being a Mom, and being a wife; this is not good because there is business to be taken care of with all that money sitting out there and she was the President pro tem per Bugweed. So I guess my question is what amount of money was collected and who is still a Board Member and working with the money while she can’t be there for the NASC because the year is coming to a close and those holdings need to be reported or they could become yet another stumbling block for the NASC to overcome in the future?
I really would like to know what was generated this year and what is being done with it because gosh… I’d really like to see it being put to good use. This year’s auction proceeds were made possible by good people who believe in conservation and they should be used for same at some time in the reasonably foreseeable future. 3k+ truly is a lot of money to be sitting around doing nothing.
http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin....t=18873
http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin....t=19274
I believe it to be blatantly obvious at this point in time that Paul's health most probably was not an issue as pertained to the disappearance of the NASC's money. I couldn't find an obituary out there on him and no missing person's report anywhere either. That sent up red flags for me. The money from 2004 was in Casper's care, custody, and control and it is gone... this is old news. It's no secret, I offered to fund a skip search at two NASC Board meetings. I also offered to fund a consultation with a practicing attorney in the state of origin after noticing a few inconsistencies. His full name and last known address were there for the taking in a thread at Terra (still probably are or PAK would have his address but having a last known phone number is a tremendous help) so my thoughts were that it wouldn’t have been difficult to locate him. For whatever reason, a few members weren't interested in pursuing this type of action back when I offered so I dropped it when I was basically told, "thanks but no thanks". It was a Board decision not to pursue Paul back then not Rose's. Bottom line, many originally believed something horrible had happened to Paul due to the steadfast faith in the man proclaimed by a few members here. As stated before in another thread; I, like many others, am now in the Bugweed camp on this. I too believe Paul did abscond with the money. Legal remedies are most certainly available as mentioned by Wolf. In the best interests of the NASC, a formal complaint should probably be drafted and filed if there are enough people interested in rolling up their sleeves to deal with the nuts and bolts of going forward with the NASC and helping Copper so she doesn’t have to go it on her own. Somebody would have to get the ball rolling with the knowledge and consent of whatever is left of the Board. Reporting the money gone to the appropriate authorities would be a good start. The Board should seriously consider reporting this to the USPS... can we say possible mail fraud? I suggested this avenue several times in the past. Paul accepted checks and money orders for high bids via common carrier (that would be the US Postal Service) on behalf of the NASC. For what it’s worth, I truly believe the missing money from last year needs to be addressed or this issue is going to continue to rear its ugly head undermining attempts to get this fledgling organization up and running. Not for profits are dependent upon an image portrayed to the public that must be above reproach. Scandal is a big turn off. The money is gone and to the best of my knowledge, no attempts are currently being made to pursue the young man who has it and no attempts were made to pursue him back when there were regular NASC meetings.
There have been no Board Meetings in months. Issue- regardless of whether the NASC is a not for profit or not, it currently has assets. I believe Federal ID #'s need to be applied for and a corporate tax return needs to be prepared and filed as well as a financial statement. A 501 (c ) (3) status can be applied for later and after (if) it is granted, the NASC could probably file a standard financial statement and a basic 990EZ however a tax lawyer or a CPA should be involved in the process. I feel bad that Terra Forums is stuck holding on to the '05 auction money as filings aren’t their responsibility but more importantly, if Rose comes back from being sick this could overwhelm her and then the NASC could be stuck looking for yet another person at the helm.
PlantAKiss resigned from the Board back in June. If Rose is sick and juggling work, being a Mom, and being a wife; this is not good because there is business to be taken care of with all that money sitting out there and she was the President pro tem per Bugweed. So I guess my question is what amount of money was collected and who is still a Board Member and working with the money while she can’t be there for the NASC because the year is coming to a close and those holdings need to be reported or they could become yet another stumbling block for the NASC to overcome in the future?
I really would like to know what was generated this year and what is being done with it because gosh… I’d really like to see it being put to good use. This year’s auction proceeds were made possible by good people who believe in conservation and they should be used for same at some time in the reasonably foreseeable future. 3k+ truly is a lot of money to be sitting around doing nothing.
http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin....t=18873
http://www.petflytrap.com/cgi-bin....t=19274
WOW! I guess I have been out of the loop, not that I'm a board member or anything. I should start perusing these threads more often.
So....if the current proceeds from the 2005 auction are still in limbo...or at least awaiting a decision for what to do with it, why doesn't it all get donated to something like the Nature Conservancy or something like that? Wouldn't that seem like a very gracious offer on our part? I don't know how all this works but it would at least be a process towards cp conservation. Can't donated monies be asked to be put towards a specific cause with the NC? Just curious.
And as far as this Casper person goes...it doesn't sound like he's the friendly ghost character. Maybe the ball should start rolling to get the money back or at the very least something should be done to hold him accountable. With all this junk that's going on it may have devastating effects on any future auctions or fund raising efforts. Folks here may not want to participate in any future fund raisers if they're always surrounded by ugliness.
Sorry if I have made any gramatical/spelling errors. Just getting over a hideous bout of the flu.
So....if the current proceeds from the 2005 auction are still in limbo...or at least awaiting a decision for what to do with it, why doesn't it all get donated to something like the Nature Conservancy or something like that? Wouldn't that seem like a very gracious offer on our part? I don't know how all this works but it would at least be a process towards cp conservation. Can't donated monies be asked to be put towards a specific cause with the NC? Just curious.
And as far as this Casper person goes...it doesn't sound like he's the friendly ghost character. Maybe the ball should start rolling to get the money back or at the very least something should be done to hold him accountable. With all this junk that's going on it may have devastating effects on any future auctions or fund raising efforts. Folks here may not want to participate in any future fund raisers if they're always surrounded by ugliness.
Sorry if I have made any gramatical/spelling errors. Just getting over a hideous bout of the flu.
Well, we have had some board members not getting the job done. We are in the process of re-organizing. The money will be put toward us getting legal status and building our website. then we will see what we have left and go from there.
As soon as we are back on our feet there will be an announcement. Until then please be patient.
I think it is a great idea to at least find out what happened to Casper. Then we will decide what to do. Wolfstyker, if you need any info from me send me a pm. In the mean time can you look and see what you can find and send the findings to me in private?
As soon as we are back on our feet there will be an announcement. Until then please be patient.
I think it is a great idea to at least find out what happened to Casper. Then we will decide what to do. Wolfstyker, if you need any info from me send me a pm. In the mean time can you look and see what you can find and send the findings to me in private?
Well Ozzy I will see what can be done. It is a fine line on how much information I can give out on Casper, for his crime is not one that will be handled by my jurisdiction. I legally cannot hand out information on someone until the court has ruled a case close and then F.O.I.A (Freedom of Information Act) takes effect. Beings the victim of this crime would be the NASC the board needs to make a decision on what they want to be done. Then there decision needs to be presented to the authorities. (If they choose to go after Casper, which IMO they MUST do if they are to hold any standing in the future.) Once the authorities are made aware of the situation (which they should have been a year ago) then they can go about finding him. It would be unethical of me to give out information until the NASC decides what they are going to do. I can though say for all certainty that Casper is alive. Which it seems that some people in past threads have stated he may not be.
To tell you the truth I'm not sure who is who myself. Bug asked me to take over as president and I accepted. I also have Pak helping every step of the way, because I need it. That is where we are right not. The board will be built back up, as soon as we get our ducks in a row and figure out which way we are headed.
[b said:
There’s that “we” again.
[b said:
Well 0zzy, there was an active Board. Several of those individuals seemed to "fall off the face of the earth" as pertained to the NASC. I know who all of those members were and you should have known who they were too as you attended meetings religiously as did I. As time wore on, many of those people disappeared, quietly slipping out a cyber back door. Some were frustrated with the perceived unwillingness of some members to follow protocol, some for perceived lack of decorum, others for fear of being exposed to liability created as a result of the Board's perceived unwillingness to pursue Casper, and others for reasons unknown but there were a few left. Perhaps I should rephrase my question to ask who hasn't resigned from the Executive Board to date? 0zzy, It would appear that you are still active as both the Chair of Conservancy as well as the Finance Chair and now you are also Bugweed’s choice for President being assisted by PAK. We all saw PAK resign from her position as Secretary in an open thread but now she is active again and assisting you in this new role? I checked Copper’s profile to see when she had last logged on and much to my surprise found her photo and avatar no longer existed. I began re-reading those threads that I posted links to in their entirety as well as a few other threads and some logs of Board Meetings and to be quite blunt, it would appear the NASC has lost Copper as the Vice President of the NASC. Gee, I wonder why. Could it be her authority was undermined when people repeatedly acted outside the Board? Bugweed has evidently resigned and assigned you as President. Not that you aren’t a fine choice but wait a second here, why didn’t Bugweed call a meeting of the last known Board members, nominate you, and let it go to a vote?
[b said:
What happened to everything being on hold?
I for one am very uncomfortable with whatever is going on right now as it appears there is activity (reorganization & web site building) without accountability. It doesn’t appear anyone even attempted to call the Board to begin meeting again to vote on a direction and that would be why no minutes were posted in this forum or sent out to the mail group in the past few months. Heck, there wasn't even an approved "Mission Statement" in place just a few months ago yet pamphlets are being distributed again? So exactly who is this “we” starting up again without laying the foundation? You and PAK? Sure appears Rose hit the nail on the head. She commented there were people out there promising positions and making connections without the Board and by gosh by golly, it just happened again. This is not only unprofessional but it might give the appearance of politics as usual, that good old boy network that may have cost the NASC dedicated volunteers the first year they tried to open up shop and again this year. A unified front is what is going to be necessary to recover ground. I believe the Board has/had a fiduciary responsibility to its membership to pursue Casper. Any past or present Board member who can’t make the connection right about now may be exposing themselves to liability. Who needs that type of grief? Seems as if there are too many friendships out there, either perceived or actual, that are creating one conflict of interest after the next ad this spells disaster. April commented on "transparency" as pertained to not for profits in the past. Colieo shared comments made by his Dad a while ago that outlined what was at stake here. I have long suspected that Casper is logging on as a guest to read all that goes on here so perhaps it is time to take this into consideration and if you are a board member who received regular group e-mails in the past where he was included in the NASC mail group, ask yourselves why it was that none of the e-mail sent to him ever bounced back as undeliverable? No mailer daemon failures? No recipient unknown, no at capacity, no nothing. Now if any of you use delivery receipt software, ask yourself who was opening up and reading his e-mails? Now ask yourselves why no obituary or missing person’s reports to be found?
So, I guess I am back to who really is "we"? Please unveil the shroud of secrecy because there are a lot of people out there who contributed to that auction in good faith thinking Bugweed was the President and Copper was the Vice President and that there was a viable Executive Board. They participated because they had faith in the leadership as well as the members who were actively involved at the time. Transparency eliminates the image that the NASC is some clique that organized to grow plants and go on “rescues” to spread around to “their” favorites.
There's another issue out there that is currently unresolved for me. A long time ago, I had a domain registered for the NASC for three years. I did this in good faith and with the approval of the Board because I saw a Board forming that was meeting regularly and moving forward and there were open lines of communication. That domain was registered, it is www.NASarracenia.org Check it out, it is still nothingness. Rose provided her contact information and PAK was asked to provide hers but never did. I was then asked to provide my information. I believe I am on that domain registration and I quite frankly would like to get my name off.
Free webhosting was also donated with unlimited server space to include but not limited to free 1 GIG e-mail addresses for every Executive Board Member, regular Board member, and volunteer of the NASC provisional upon the NASC acquiring that not for profit status. Acquiring not for profit status is no easy feat as I am sure Rob from Botanique can attest. Basically, if there is no forward movement by the end of this year, I’d like to free that server up so the space can be made available to a viable not for profit. It seems fair given the most recent revelations.
Perhaps it is time to take a close look at the people who tried to help. Although I believe it was not the intent of the past or present Board to do anything but use the money for conservation, I for one am feeling duped and by the looks of the few posts above… I am not alone. If I would have had any idea it would have come to this I certainly wouldn’t have purchased plants to be able to donate to that auction to be put up for bid to help generate funds for an organization that can’t seem to get off the ground because of the mystery and intrigue created when Casper exited stage left. That being said, perhaps it is time to figure out who is left from the Board and maybe the Board should seriously consider donating the proceeds to The Nature Conservancy or even to Botanique or to any place that will use those funds consistent with the spirit in which they came to exist.
Here’s the problem and I doubt it is going to go away-
[b said:
Now it is many months later and money was collected from a second auction. What would Colieo’s Dad have to say about that since the NASC isn’t even a registered corporation and who wants to go down on the record as being an Executive Officer under these circumstances regardless of whether it is a “for profit corp” or a “not for profit corp”? And in my mind there does still exist the issue of a Board’s fiduciary responsibility to its membership… those people who offered and bid on plants at these auctions.
This whole situation is incredibly frustrating, disappointing, and depressing to me. I was sort of looking forward to contributing to an education sub committee or committee. Who would have ever thought that missing money could have caused so much trouble? But this does not negate that a licensed practicing attorney from the state of incorporation should have been involved in this process a long time ago to insulate the Board, protect its membership, and to ensure the success of the NASC for years to come.
[b said:
There’s that “we” again.
She was right though, many people who had the experience of creating, organizing, and running not for profits appear to have bailed ship while many others who may have wanted to contribute sat back waiting to see what the heck was going to happen next before they stuck their necks out. These people have been alienated. So everyone is running scared thanks to dear darling Casper and the people stuck holding the bag had nothing to do with the disappearance of that money. I wish the best for the NASC but reality check… appearances are everything.
And wolf9striker, you seem like a nice person. Suggestion since the lines of communication have deteriorated to such a point that it appears no one will have all the pieces of the puzzle to be able to get the whole picture of what’s happening ever since Casper disappeared… please consider letting the current Executive Board assemble and collectively decide to pursue Casper.
